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The New Division

what magic is in ottawa that will make him better?

I'm curious what magic was it that gave Ottawa such a high save percentage? To be that high it can't just be luck. Clearly they've got good goalies but Bishop's save % went up .13 from his first season in Ottawa and then down .05 when he went to Tampa. Could it be the system and/or personnel in Ottawa that made the difference in addition to a little luck?
 
Okay, but you don't seem to understand the context here.

There's elite numbers. And then there's better than Hasek put up in his prime type numbers.

You expect Ottawa to receive the best goaltending in league history next season over 82 games?

If not then you do have to accept some kind of regression towards the mean, especially given the possibility for Anderson to tire, as he typically does when he plays more games (which has a corresponding negative impact on his save percentage), and for Lehner to have to make adjustments as a young goalie with limited North American reps under his belt.



That's because Ottawa had very few good offensive players in 2012-13, not that they under-performed. You can't just go out and assume guys like Zack Smith are going to pick up the slack here or that a guy like Pageau will continue his own unsustainable offensive production, as based on his previous track record that is an unlikely prospect. You'll get improvements from guys like Ryan obviously, but that doesn't mean that you'll automatically improve your shooting percentage as a team.

We can't expect automatic improvements to our shooting percentage, but we CAN expect an automatic reduction in our save percentage.

Ok.
 
Here is page 1 of the comments of the Cowen / White fight on hockeyfights.com

Posted by staceyb on May 6, 2013 at 8:05 PM
Ryan White finally got his clock cleaned. "He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword."

As the Ottawa Citizen hockey writer said, what was White thinking to slash Smith in the ankles with Neil, Kassian, and Cowen on the ice at the same time? White has little or no hockey sense. Coach Therrien knows it.

The Montreal top management sitting glumly in the press box remind me of the old Soviet leaders watching a missile parade go by in the Kremlin.

Posted by braindog1017 on May 5, 2013 at 11:36 PM
Was White serious with that slash? And after getting his ass handed to him he follows Cowen back to the box and acts like he wants more. What an absolute joke. The Canadiens made themselves look silly tonight.

Except for Travis Moen. He took on a tough guy in Neil and he almost never acts like a bitch. He needs a new team.

Posted by chad420 on May 6, 2013 at 8:35 AM
win Jared from subway...decent bout...love these old school brawls...like the 80s

Posted by RoadRiverRail on May 5, 2013 at 10:56 PM
Cowen delivers some serious hockey justice. This is why you keep fighting in the game.

Posted by mr hockey on May 5, 2013 at 10:05 PM
old time hockey boys ,that's how you play

Posted by blackngold on May 6, 2013 at 12:44 AM
White pulls a punk move on Smith and then gets absolutely embarrassed in the subsequent fight with Cowen. He was practically running away from Cowen by the end

Posted by 777Big on May 5, 2013 at 10:44 PM
What an absolute pu$$y move by White. Dirty-ass punk.
At least Cowen kicked his ass.

Posted by Chak on May 5, 2013 at 11:14 PM
Which of you homer *******s gave this as a win to Ryan White?

Posted by chrisuko on May 5, 2013 at 10:19 PM
Win: Senators... I just love being able to watch five different canadiens players getting the snot beat out of them. I just wish Subban was on the ice to take a dozen punches to the face. It was great to see Cowen give White the business though cause White is a little punk

Posted by Boston Garden on May 5, 2013 at 10:29 PM
Good to see the cowardly punk White get pummeled.

The Habs are the softest team in the league, they're pathetic.

Posted by sedinfan on May 5, 2013 at 11:53 PM
Ask and you shall receive. Not a big fan of the Senators, but i enjoyed watching them kick the crap out of a bunch of whiners. Still thought the suspension was a joke, so i guess they got even the old fashioned way. If Montreal is going to act tough, they better find somone that can fight, they just took a beating.

Posted by kkdowning on May 6, 2013 at 9:12 AM
White sometimes does rather dumb stuff and in this instance he catches a serious beating for his efforts

Posted by King of Goons on May 6, 2013 at 8:26 PM
Ryan White got beat the hell up. It's as simple as that. OWNED. Cowan completely smoked him and made him look ridiculous.

I see a lot a Montreal Canadien hatred on this site ...and now i understand why. What a bunch of fairy's they are. They lost every fight except the Subban fight which was a lousy one anyway. I don't even have to comment on the rest of these fights. If a Canadien fought tonight, ...HE GOT EMBARRASSED.

Outside of Prust, this Canadien team is a bunch of panty-wearing women. They were french toast tonight. Ottawa punched the sh*t out of them all night long and the Habs had nothing to say about it other than: "Thank you Sir, may I have another".

Posted by The Mad House on May 5, 2013 at 11:28 PM
Cowen looked great here against a tough kid in Ryan White.

Posted by BigBadBruins68 on May 6, 2013 at 12:36 AM
I think Cowen wanted to know where his money was. Needless to say, White didn't have it.
 
Here is page 1 of the comments of the Cowen / White fight on hockeyfights.com

Okay... and do how do any of those comments change or dispute the fast that White is 6' 200 and Cowen is 6'5" 230? And on top of that White had a punctured lung from earlier in that game.

Cowen won a fight that he should have won with even more ease. White is crazy and does stupid shit and will fight pretty much anyone, but he's not much of a fighter. Cowen winning that fight mean pretty much nothing.
 
We can't expect automatic improvements to our shooting percentage, but we CAN expect an automatic reduction in our save percentage.

Ok.

In a word: yes. One was unsustainable and the other isn't necessarily primed for an off-setting level of improvement to the degree that it will effectively counter the decline in the other area. Now, I *do* think Ottawa will prove their shooting percentage next year, but probably not to the degree guys like SENSible think.

Let's say that Ottawa's shooting percentage does increase by 2-3 percent. In a situation where Ottawa takes an average of 33.1 shots on goal per game (their average last year - tops in the NHL) that works out to 2,714 shots (last year's average multiplied by 82 games). At an average of 2.33 non-shootout goals last season Ottawa would have scored 191 goals over a full regular -season.

They scored on 7.04 percent of their shots in 2012-13. If we increase that scoring rate to 9.04 percent - a convenient, round two percent increase and also the median ranked total by team last year (Vancouver) - they would score 245 goals over a full NHL schedule. That's a massive scoring increase of 54 goals above their projected goal total using last season's metrics.

Now, if Ottawa experiences a corresponding drop in team save percentage from 2012-13's unsustainable .935 mark to a still superb .925 mark let's see what happens:

Ottawa goalies stopped 1,402 out of 1,500 shots last season. That works out to 2,395 saves on 2,563 shots over 82 games - 168 goals against.

Were the Sens save percentage to drop ten points (.925 times 2,563 shots equals 2,370 saves) then they would allow 193 goals, an increase of 25 goals against. Coupled with a net gain of 54 additional goals with a league-average shooting percentage, Ottawa comes out quite favourably: +29 in their change of goal differential.

Of course, such a huge leap in rankings in terms of shooting percentage from one year to the next is unlikely. If Ottawa only improved their team shooting percentage by 1.5 percent - still a sizeable increase (they would have ranked 20th with that rate in 2012-13) - they would be projected to score 232 goals, a more realistic figure. That's an improvement of 41 goals over their projected goals for total last season and a +16 goal differential over their expected increase in goals against. That's about five or so wins worth of improvement right there.

If Ottawa, who was on pace for 96 points last season, added ten points it would have them at 106. That would rank fourth in the league in points in the full season before last.

But how likely is that scenario? With largely the same personnel in place in 2011-12, including excellent, healthy campaigns from Karlsson and Spezza, and an unexpectedly productive year for Alfredsson, Ottawa had a team shooting percentage of 9.44 percent - in the upper-third of the league. However, they had a corresponding negative difference in save percentage of .911 - 24 points worse than what they would receive from their goalies the next season. Rather than a +12 goal differential - projected to +23 (191-168) over 82 games, Ottawa only had a +9 differential. They were 5th in goals for and 24th in goals against, and ranking 16th in save percentage. Last season they were 26th in goals for, and 2nd in goals against, ranking first in save percentage by an unheard of margin: TEN points!

It's entirely possible, likely even, that Ottawa's projected increase in offensive output will be met with an accompanying decline in defensive performance, both due to unsustainable save percentages and the departure of their top minutes-eating defender from last season in Gonchar. Of course they should see corresponding improvements in offensive output. If the last two years under MacLean are any indication though, receiving both quality offence AND defence could prove problematic.

Lastly, if we decrease Ottawa's team save percentage to .920 - and keep in mind they improved by an unheard of 24 points from 2011-12 to 2012-13 (so they're still out ahead by a huge 9 points from 2011-12 to 2013-14 here) - they would have allowed 205 goals last year (.920 times 2,563 shots equals 2,358 saves). That's a projected increase of 37 goals from last season to this year over 82 games. That's with top three team goaltending no less. If we give Ottawa that total, coupled with the projected 232 goals on a respectable projected 1.5 percent improvement in team shooting percentage, that's a team with a goal differential of +27.

That's a good, playoff-quality club and a slight improvement over last season's projected +23 differential. Four goals improvement in goal difference (41 GF and 37 GA) works out to between 1 and 2 additional wins depending on how you look at it. That would give Ottawa between 97 and 100 points or so next year. I had them pegged for 98, so this looks about right to me. A very decent offensive improvement with a regression towards the mean in goaltending performance. Keep in mind though that 205 GA is very good: it would have ranked 7th in the NHL in 2011-12.

And if you're asking, I have the Leafs around 100-104 points as of today. I think they'll be stronger defensively next season while dressing Gardiner for a full season un-encumbered by a concussion, while playing AHL plugs like Fraser, Kostka, and Holzer substantially less. Ranger represents a potentially huge defensive addition as well based on his past track record and if he is mentally prepared and of sound mind. Bernier should represent an improvement in goal, especially over Scrivens, and Lupul will benefit the offence mightily if he's healthy for a full year.

Just my take.
 
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I'm curious what magic was it that gave Ottawa such a high save percentage?

Small sample size magic most likely.

To be that high it can't just be luck. Clearly they've got good goalies but Bishop's save % went up .13 from his first season in Ottawa and then down .05 when he went to Tampa. Could it be the system and/or personnel in Ottawa that made the difference in addition to a little luck?

Same thing that happened to St Louis the season before. Multiple goalies all playing at the absolute top of their games over limited sample sizes. I think we would have seen some correction over the "2nd half" had it been an 82 game season.
 
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Ryan scores the most goals of anyone on this team. I think the new team will rejuvenate him and bring him back to be what everyone thought he would be.
 
It's interesting because a couple years ago, Kessel and Ryan were on a similar career trajectory. There were both early 20's, 30ish goal, 60-70 point guys. Over the last 2 seasons though, Kessel has evolved into a PPG player while Ryan has taken a step back.
 
He did manage to be a 70pt guy last time he got 20 minutes with a top line centre, so you might be right and he might get back to his best possible upside this year. If he can stay on a line with Spezza, of course. But then again, Michalek's production will plummett without Spezza, so we'll see how it shakes out.
Look at the PP time for Ryan. Barely 2 minutes. Perry and Getzlaf were getting #1 time together to the tune of 3+.
 
Last 2 years
Alfie - 122 gp, 37 gls, 85 pts (82 gp, 25 gls, 57 pts)
Ryan - 128 gp, 42 gls, 87 pts (82 gp, 27 gls, 56 pts)
Mac - 113 gp, 28n gls, 63 pts (82 gp, 20 gls, 46 pts)
 
In a word: yes. One was unsustainable and the other isn't necessarily primed for an off-setting level of improvement to the degree that it will effectively counter the decline in the other area. Now, I *do* think Ottawa will prove their shooting percentage next year, but probably not to the degree guys like SENSible think.

Let's say that Ottawa's shooting percentage does increase by 2-3 percent. In a situation where Ottawa takes an average of 33.1 shots on goal per game (their average last year - tops in the NHL) that works out to 2,714 shots (last year's average multiplied by 82 games). At an average of 2.33 non-shootout goals last season Ottawa would have scored 191 goals over a full regular -season.

They scored on 7.04 percent of their shots in 2012-13. If we increase that scoring rate to 9.04 percent - a convenient, round two percent increase and also the median ranked total by team last year (Vancouver) - they would score 245 goals over a full NHL schedule. That's a massive scoring increase of 54 goals above their projected goal total using last season's metrics.

Now, if Ottawa experiences a corresponding drop in team save percentage from 2012-13's unsustainable .935 mark to a still superb .925 mark let's see what happens:

Ottawa goalies stopped 1,402 out of 1,500 shots last season. That works out to 2,395 saves on 2,563 shots over 82 games - 168 goals against.

Were the Sens save percentage to drop ten points (.925 times 2,563 shots equals 2,370 saves) then they would allow 193 goals, an increase of 25 goals against. Coupled with a net gain of 54 additional goals with a league-average shooting percentage, Ottawa comes out quite favourably: +29 in their change of goal differential.

Of course, such a huge leap in rankings in terms of shooting percentage from one year to the next is unlikely. If Ottawa only improved their team shooting percentage by 1.5 percent - still a sizeable increase (they would have ranked 20th with that rate in 2012-13) - they would be projected to score 232 goals, a more realistic figure. That's an improvement of 41 goals over their projected goals for total last season and a +16 goal differential over their expected increase in goals against. That's about five or so wins worth of improvement right there.

If Ottawa, who was on pace for 96 points last season, added ten points it would have them at 106. That would rank fourth in the league in points in the full season before last.

But how likely is that scenario? With largely the same personnel in place in 2011-12, including excellent, healthy campaigns from Karlsson and Spezza, and an unexpectedly productive year for Alfredsson, Ottawa had a team shooting percentage of 9.44 percent - in the upper-third of the league. However, they had a corresponding negative difference in save percentage of .911 - 24 points worse than what they would receive from their goalies the next season. Rather than a +12 goal differential - projected to +23 (191-168) over 82 games, Ottawa only had a +9 differential. They were 5th in goals for and 24th in goals against, and ranking 16th in save percentage. Last season they were 26th in goals for, and 2nd in goals against, ranking first in save percentage by an unheard of margin: TEN points!

It's entirely possible, likely even, that Ottawa's projected increase in offensive output will be met with an accompanying decline in defensive performance, both due to unsustainable save percentages and the departure of their top minutes-eating defender from last season in Gonchar. Of course they should see corresponding improvements in offensive output. If the last two years under MacLean are any indication though, receiving both quality offence AND defence could prove problematic.

Lastly, if we decrease Ottawa's team save percentage to .920 - and keep in mind they improved by an unheard of 24 points from 2011-12 to 2012-13 (so they're still out ahead by a huge 9 points from 2011-12 to 2013-14 here) - they would have allowed 205 goals last year (.920 times 2,563 shots equals 2,358 saves). That's a projected increase of 37 goals from last season to this year over 82 games. That's with top three team goaltending no less. If we give Ottawa that total, coupled with the projected 232 goals on a respectable projected 1.5 percent improvement in team shooting percentage, that's a team with a goal differential of +27.

That's a good, playoff-quality club and a slight improvement over last season's projected +23 differential. Four goals improvement in goal difference (41 GF and 37 GA) works out to between 1 and 2 additional wins depending on how you look at it. That would give Ottawa between 97 and 100 points or so next year. I had them pegged for 98, so this looks about right to me. A very decent offensive improvement with a regression towards the mean in goaltending performance. Keep in mind though that 205 GA is very good: it would have ranked 7th in the NHL in 2011-12.

And if you're asking, I have the Leafs around 100-104 points as of today. I think they'll be stronger defensively next season while dressing Gardiner for a full season un-encumbered by a concussion, while playing AHL plugs like Fraser, Kostka, and Holzer substantially less. Ranger represents a potentially huge defensive addition as well based on his past track record and if he is mentally prepared and of sound mind. Bernier should represent an improvement in goal, especially over Scrivens, and Lupul will benefit the offence mightily if he's healthy for a full year.

Just my take.

tl;dr
 
This year
Ryan - 46 gp, 11 gls, 30 pts (82 gp, 20 gls, 53 pts)
Alfie - 47 gp, 10 gls, 26 pts (82 gp, 17 gls, 45 pts)
Mac - 40 gp, 8n gls, 20 pts (82 gp, 16 gls, 40 pts)



Man...Ryan has really been a massive disappointment. A lot to give up fro a 50 point guy.
 
Last 2 years
Alfie - 122 gp, 37 gls, 85 pts (82 gp, 25 gls, 57 pts)
Ryan - 128 gp, 42 gls, 87 pts (82 gp, 27 gls, 56 pts)
Mac - 113 gp, 28n gls, 63 pts (82 gp, 20 gls, 46 pts)
$100 that Ryan puts up more points than Alfie did last year.

Whaddya say?
 
$100 that Ryan puts up more than 45 points? You better hope so.

Hell unless Ryan puts up more points than Ryan did last year its a terrible deal for the Sens.
 
$100 that Ryan puts up more than 57 points (Alfies two year average).

Or are you going to be exposed for not actually thinking that Ryan is some 50 point player.

Sucker's bet.

Ryan could put up 60 points and still have it be a disappointing season for a guy who a few years ago looked like one of the next break out stars in the league....but still win you the bet.
 
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