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OT: American Politics

MindzEye said:
There are leaks that definitely include material damaging for Trump and it's doubtful that those are coming from a pro Trump source.....stuff like info on the Manchester attack though, serves trumps narrative more than any other.
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I know there are leaks aimed at undermining Trump, I am saying that everybody is pretty quick to assume that's what happened here...and for all we know we have a case of somebody selling out for their own gain.
 
Obviously intelligence leaks are bad. Also obviously it's a way bigger story when you know for a fact the leaker.

Love people trying to make arguments for others to argue against though. Interesting tactic. Some just love to be adversarial I guess. Not enough to have your own opinion. Have to attack "the other side". Just silly.


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Putin happy.

Nicholas Burns‏
@RNicholasBurns
Every US President since Truman has pledged support for Article 5--that US will defend Europe. Not so Trump today at #NATO. Major mistake.
 
Altair said:
How many factions do you believe are leaking information within the security apparatus?

IMHO, the majority of leaked info to date has been damaging to trump, rightly or wrongly, that's irrelevant. That leads me to believe that at the very least there are anti Trump individuals leaking intel withing the intel community. There might be a pro trump faction leaking intel as well, but I would say that's up in the air. Regardless, at this point, it's going to take a full shutdown, purge, or at the very least giving certain groups different intel and seeing which ends up in the WaPo or NYT to figure out what the hell is going on and by who, and how deep it runs.
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Which of course, is exactly what Trump wants. Every leak (especially of material that has nothing to do with Trump-Russia or Trump in general) pushes us towards that possibility. Yes it's damaging the US intelligence services, but I think you're nuts if you believe for a second that any of that matters to Trump beyond his ability to control bad domestic press. He's already proven pretty clearly that he gives zero ****s about American allies.
 
Sessions is about to start jailing reporters who won't reveal their sources....

DAsLBjtXUAAYn6l.jpg:large



America really is dying.
 
MindzEye said:
Which of course, is exactly what Trump wants. Every leak (especially of material that has nothing to do with Trump-Russia or Trump in general) pushes us towards that possibility. Yes it's damaging the US intelligence services, but I think you're nuts if you believe for a second that any of that matters to Trump beyond his ability to control bad domestic press. He's already proven pretty clearly that he gives zero ****s about American allies.
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Don't think for a second that I give a damn about trump. I don't care about trump. I care about the institutions of the US being strong enough to withstand trump. I trust that despite the personal failings of trump and most in his administration, that the courts, that the states, that congress and the senate and the bureaucracy can keep the country running for 4-8 years.

I trust that despite every bad decision trump makes that endangers Americans at home and abroad, the intelligence agencies can keep America safe.

If they go around painting a big ole target on themselves and begging the administration to clean house, that takes away at least one pillar of competence at a time where nobody can afford for that to happen.

It's bad enough that they are no longer a trusted partner for intelligence sharing, it will be much worst if they are barely functioning after a massive housecleaning.
 
MindzEye said:
Which of course, is exactly what Trump wants. Every leak (especially of material that has nothing to do with Trump-Russia or Trump in general) pushes us towards that possibility. Yes it's damaging the US intelligence services, but I think you're nuts if you believe for a second that any of that matters to Trump beyond his ability to control bad domestic press. He's already proven pretty clearly that he gives zero ****s about American allies.
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What are the odds Mueller will examine these leaks?
 
Artnes said:
He wants to the turn the US military into mercenaries. You want their help then pony up
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By pony up, you mean invest in their own militaries?

In Canada's case, if we want American help, invest another 20 billion into the Canadian forces?

Ya...some mercenaries. America wont see a dime.
 
Altair said:
Don't think for a second that I give a damn about trump. I don't care about trump. I care about the institutions of the US being strong enough to withstand trump. I trust that despite the personal failings of trump and most in his administration, that the courts, that the states, that congress and the senate and the bureaucracy can keep the country running for 4-8 years.

I trust that despite every bad decision trump makes that endangers Americans at home and abroad, the intelligence agencies can keep America safe.

If they go around painting a big ole target on themselves and begging the administration to clean house, that takes away at least one pillar of competence at a time where nobody can afford for that to happen.

It's bad enough that they are no longer a trusted partner for intelligence sharing, it will be much worst if they are barely functioning after a massive housecleaning.
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Which is exactly why we can't take this talk of "leakers" from the administration at face value. There's no benefit for the US security apparatus in leaking intel on the Manchester Attack. Everyone should be very suspect of any leak that pushes us closer to Trump being able to drum up the political support to gut the intel agencies. You can't care about the US intel agencies and not care about Trump right now. The two are too closely interwoven and clearly at odds with each other.

Trump wants this massive house cleaning you're afraid of, and what appears to be random leaking of intel on entirely unrelated items to US security is likely just obfuscation from team Trump. What exactly has been leakier than the White House since January? A few leaks targeted at Trump, or the deluge of embarassing shit that has flowed out of the West Wing?
 
By the way, most Nato countries already increased their spending last year in response to the ukraine invasion, and all committed to raise it to 2% by 2024.
 
lecoqsportif said:
What are the odds Mueller will examine these leaks?
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I would say that they're outside the scope of his current investigation, unless they turn out to be part of the cover up. I could see there being overlap of the actors involved.

We already know that TrumpCo has tried floating fake leaks as a gotcha for news outlets

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-tips-maggie-haberman-news-lies-a7749821.html

So they're already pretty clearly thinking along these lines. Why wouldn't they release real intel (which Trump has done his damn self) as another front in what they would see as the same war? They're trying to wrangle the media and their intel services into the same corner to drown both in one move.
 
zeke said:
By the way, most Nato countries already increased their spending last year in response to the ukraine invasion, and all committed to raise it to 2% by 2024.
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Donnie wants protection money. Spending on military isn't enough.
 
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