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BOOK REVIEW: Burke' Law: A Life in Hockey

LeafOfFaith said:
Yeah, on principle, no.

Not buying Babcock's, JFJ's, Carlyle's, Wilson's, or the book of any other putz who came, saw, and conquered squat.
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Meh.

I like hockey stories, and Burke's is actually well written.

If JFJ were to put pen to paper and give some dirt on what was happening behind the scenes of MLSE post lockout, I'd probably buy that one too (when it hit the Chapters bargain bin).

I can't imagine Carlyle/Wilson would have much to say - Babcock would have some great stories.
 
What does he say in there about his bold semi-proclamation that he would draft Tavares? That was also a fun fail.
 
Leafin' said:
Those were some dark times.

I have buddies that are really down on the team after last years playoff choke. My argument is always “how tf did you survive the JFJ, Burke, Fletcher days and NOW decide to put your foot down?”

This is the best team of my lifetime. Better than the best of Quinn years. I truly believe it regardless of the results so far. Fuck we might never get a team like this again in our lives.
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Man are your standards ever low. "Regardless of results"? I hate to break this to you, but pro sports is a results-oriented business. Results are literally the only thing that matters.

I always felt that Quinn was grossly overrated as a coach and GM and I thought that long before he came to work for the Leafs (when the national media decided to anoint him a genius) Quinn had more success in both Philly and Vancouver but even his Leafs teams could at least win a playoff round once in a while, which is more than can be said for the current squad.

I guess that's what happens after 55 years of failure. I see it among younger Habs fans too. No standards anymore; they literally just want a game to watch on a Saturday night. Any 20 random guys wearing the CH on their jerseys is enough for them and every modest gain is treated like a monumental achievement. It sickens me because I have always viewed the relationship between a team and its fans as essentially transactional. As an old school fan, that transactional relationship is simple: if they want my money and time they need to provide me with the championships that are owed to me as part of my birthright as a Habs fan. That's the standard and I do not compromise on it. If they aren't winning Cups I want it burned to the ground and I want people to get fired. And, more to the point, I want the front office and ownership to be acutely uncomfortable whenever their team does not produce the desired results. I'm very pro pitchforks and torches.

Needless to say I am not the kind of fan that the team wants to cultivate more of. They prefer the easily pleased, non-discerning type of fan that Toronto has always been famous for; the people who get charged top dollar prices to watch a sub-standard product for decades at a time and their only response is "Take more of our money!"

Sorry, but this current Leafs team is not better than the best of the Quinn era. It isn't better than the Fletcher 93 and 94 teams that went to the Conference Finals. It's not even better than the Ballard-era teams of mid to late 70's that also made it to the semi-finals. All of those teams managed to win a few games that mattered. This current bunch has done nothing except underachieve and the only thing they do with any consistency is choke in big games. I weep for you if this represents the best Leafs team of your lifetime. You're either very young or suffering from a bad case of recency bias. The fancy stat geeks can blow their loads over Marner's and Matthews Corsi numbers if that's what excites them, but the bottom line is that this team does not win when it matters. If I were a Leafs fan this fact would trouble me. Why it doesn't seem to trouble any actual Leafs fans is a mystery to me.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Man are your standards ever low. "Regardless of results"? I hate to break this to you, but pro sports is a results-oriented business. Results are literally the only thing that matters.

I always felt that Quinn was grossly overrated as a coach and GM and I thought that long before he came to work for the Leafs (when the national media decided to anoint him a genius) Quinn had more success in both Philly and Vancouver but even his Leafs teams could at least win a playoff round once in a while, which is more than can be said for the current squad.

I guess that's what happens after 55 years of failure. I see it among younger Habs fans too. No standards anymore; they literally just want a game to watch on a Saturday night. Any 20 random guys wearing the CH on their jerseys is enough for them and every modest gain is treated like a monumental achievement. It sickens me because I have always viewed the relationship between a team and its fans as essentially transactional. As an old school fan, that transactional relationship is simple: if they want my money and time they need to provide me with the championships that are owed to me as part of my birthright as a Habs fan. That's the standard and I do not compromise on it. If they aren't winning Cups I want it burned to the ground and I want people to get fired. And, more to the point, I want the front office and ownership to be acutely uncomfortable whenever their team does not produce the desired results. I'm very pro pitchforks and torches.

Needless to say I am not the kind of fan that the team wants to cultivate more of. They prefer the easily pleased, non-discerning type of fan that Toronto has always been famous for; the people who get charged top dollar prices to watch a sub-standard product for decades at a time and their only response is "Take more of our money!"

Sorry, but this current Leafs team is not better than the best of the Quinn era. It isn't better than the Fletcher 93 and 94 teams that went to the Conference Finals. It's not even better than the Ballard-era teams of mid to late 70's that also made it to the semi-finals. All of those teams managed to win a few games that mattered. This current bunch has done nothing except underachieve and the only thing they do with any consistency is choke in big games. I weep for you if this represents the best Leafs team of your lifetime. You're either very young or suffering from a bad case of recency bias. The fancy stat geeks can blow their loads over Marner's and Matthews Corsi numbers if that's what excites them, but the bottom line is that this team does not win when it matters. If I were a Leafs fan this fact would trouble me. Why it doesn't seem to trouble any actual Leafs fans is a mystery to me.
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This team is easily better than either of those squads.

Those teams were for the easily satisfied crowd - win a playoffs round or two as a gritty underdog and it doesn't matter that the team was never actually an elite team with elite talent who were only ever a dark horse to win cups.

This team, finally, is a team with the elite talent and performance to legit expect cups from.
 
eye-rolling.gif
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Based on what, exactly? Their zero playoff series wins?
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Those teams were for the easily satisfied crowd - win a playoffs round or two as a gritty underdog and it doesn't matter that the team was never actually an elite team with elite talent and were only ever a dark horse to win cups.

This team, finally, is a team with the elite talent and performance to legit expect cups from.
 
Those Quinn teams were fun to watch but other than perhaps 2003-2004, it always sorta felt like a bit of a mirage.

I don't even know what to say about comparing this team to those Ballard teams.
 
zeke said:
Those teams were for the easily satisfied crowd - win a playoffs round or two as a gritty underdog and it doesn't matter that the team was never actually an elite team with elite talent and were only ever a dark horse to win cups.

This team, finally, is a team with the elite talent and performance to legit expect cups from.
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The 93 and 94 teams choked in the Conference Finals but they were not dark horses. The 94 Canucks team that beat them (coached by Quinn) was an actual dark horse.
 
hockeylover said:
Those Quinn teams were fun to watch but other than perhaps 2003-2004, it always sorta felt like a bit of a mirage.
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Very good teams that somehow never landed the big free agent or two to give them the prime elite talent that the elite teams had.
 
hockeylover said:
Those Quinn teams were fun to watch but other than perhaps 2003-2004, it always sorta felt like a bit of a mirage.

I don't even know what to say about comparing this team to those Ballard teams.
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The late 70's Leafs had the same problem that the current Leafs have: a lack of depth. They both had some elite forwards (Sittler and McDonald in the 70's, Marner and Matthews today) but the team of the 70's had better defensemen (Salming and Turnbull were better than anyone currently manning the Leafs blue line)

Goaltending in 2021 is on a different plane of existence altogether than the 70's so comparing Palmateer to Campbell is a waste of time really. You're talking about apples vs microchips. Palmateer was a flash in the pan who was overrated because he played for the Leafs and had a personality that made him a media darling. Campbell is likely better, because even in his prime Palmateer was never elite, but on the other hand Campbell hasn't won anything yet.
 
I adored those Pat Quinn Leaf teams, but talent-wise, they were always a very clear step or two below the top Cup contenders when it came to the talent that was on the ice.

For them to win a Cup would’ve taken a pure Cinderella run. Whereas for this current Leaf team to win a Cup would just take them playing to their full potential in the playoffs.

And hey, maybe that’ll never happen because of some inherent flaw in the mental make-up of our top guys. But there’s no question in my mind we have the talent. That wasn’t the case with those Quinn teams, which is why we were always so desperate for them to add stud UFA’s or deadline additions.
 
That Canes series tainted a lot of that era for me. They had no reason to lose that one. They would have lost in the finals anyway but we would have had Habsy esque "memories" from the finals appearance.
 
This is the winningest Leaf team of all time.

No team in the 70s is in the top 25.
Those Pat Burns teams were 22nd and 24th.

It's not even close.
 
Preston said:
That Canes series tainted a lot of that era for me. They had no reason to lose that one. They would have lost in the finals anyway but we would have had Habsy esque "memories" from the finals appearance.
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Yeah, that was a heart-breaker. Still unbelievable that they let Jeff fuckin’ O’Neill go legend and knock them out when they were so close to getting to the Cup finals.

Though at the same time, it should be remembered that they somehow got to that point with Roberts-McCauley-Hoglund as their #1 line for 99% of that run.
 
LeafGm said:
Yeah, that was a heart-breaker. Still unbelievable that they let Jeff fuckin’ O’Neill go legend and knock them out when they were so close to getting to the Cup finals.

Though at the same time, it should be remembered that they somehow got to that point with Roberts-McCauley-Hoglund as their #1 line for 99% of that run.
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And when they got nearly everyone back they lost to... fucking Carolina. That is very current Leafs-esque in terms of finding a creative way to lose in the first series of the run where we all expected them to win.
 
Preston said:
That Canes series tainted a lot of that era for me. They had no reason to lose that one. They would have lost in the finals anyway but we would have had Habsy esque "memories" from the finals appearance.
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Arturs fucking Irbe.

Sundin coming back really did seem to sap our momentum somehow. Damn shame.

And of course it was Paul fucking Maurice behind the bench.
 
zeke said:
They were absolutely dark horse underdogs and were shocking winners over the likes of Detroit.
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In the early 90's the Red Wings were like the Leafs of today: big winners during the regular season and absolute playoff chokers. Back then, beating Detroit in the playoffs was no great accomplishment. They were a mirage until Scotty Bowman showed up. The 93 Leafs only finished 4 points behind Detroit so it wasn't a huge upset. They also finished well ahead of both the Blues and the Kings that season.

And don't come and try to convince me that the Leafs weren't heavily favored to beat Vancouver in 94. The Canucks were barely a 500 team that season and had they played in the Central Division with the Leafs would have finished in 5th place out of 6 teams.
 
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