Eric Staal Thread
- Thread starter JamesNorthern
- Start date
Habsy
Just Walking About Aimlessly
Late playoff what now?
We statistically have a better shot at the first overall pick than a playoff spot right now. I love it when they get no points. If Bergevin is a buyer he should be fired.
JamesNorthern
Active member
Here's how I see things currently.
We are in the thick of an unexpected playoff push.
I think looking at that and the reality of Staal's situation from not only our perspective but any potential acquiring team's own perspective, it is all about rental fit. For the remainder of Staal's salary, we would need to take something back/or eat his. If we take away the eat salary option, then we'd need to take a salary back. This can be done favorably by looking at what we are getting back equally as: short term rental.
So what other teams in a playoff push have players on expiring contracts? If we can identify a player there that could be useful to our current unexpected drive - without taking on more than the expiring contract, then I think that is a really smart move and opens up a lot of options.
The difficulty in the deal though is convincing the acquiring team to throw in a 1st rounder or high-end prospect. Again, giving up the latter seems to make absolutely no sense for the acquiring team. Unless they are stock filled with talent. That would only work if for example, if a team like the Oilers and their current mix actually were contenders. Then they might want to trade away some depth for experience to go along with Eric's skillset. I don't really see that many of the teams contending this year having necessarily deep coffers, so that might be much to expect also (a high end prospect in return, however, Nashville seems to be a potential close fit there in that they have a fair amount of forward depth in the system)
This also makes it possible for that team to also consider a 1st rounder in return, since they would be dealing from a position of strength in forward depth.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team-rankings/
Looking at the top 10 list, these teams would qualify: Boston, Tampa, Islanders, Red Wings and Ducks.
Now examining the aforementioned five teams current expiring contract situations:
Boston: Lou Eriksson expiring contract that could be a good fit
Tampa: With Stamkos taken off the block - not much else and we don't need defense.
Islanders: Okposo, Nielsen,
Ducks: David Perron
Wings: Brad Richards
I could see the Ducks being a potential suitor here since they are also out west... David Perron could be a good temporary, low risk addition/roster spot replacement for Staal.
Then we just need to work in a 1st rounder OR high end prospect coming back. I doubt they would want to depart with their top chip prospect in Nick Ritchie - but that I would do in a heartbeat. Outside of that, they don't have much forward depth at all - and we aren't looking for defense depth (although if they were willing to part with Theodore..?)
Richards from Detroit could make temporary sense too.
Eric Staal (since the contracts don't negate each other, we'd likely have to retain all or some of his remaining salary this season to make it work)
for
David Perron
a 1st rounder or Nick Ritchie
I think that deal could make sense?
Otherwise, you can apply the same logic with any contender based on the assets the currently have. Like rumored Chicago and the Rangers. They are not going to give away stuff for an expiring contract. They are looking at an upgrade on a position that maybe they are also not getting good bang for their buck on. So again, looking for an expiring contract that is a good temporary fit coming back for Eric Staal, and again try to get either the 1st or a high end prospect throw in, with the focus on forwards over defenseman.
With just over a week to go for the deadline, I think there is still big potential to make a smart move for everyone involved and there is some 'fair' business logic to be applied because teams in general are trending to youth and lower costs overall... without mortgaging or doubling down at risk of their future. Iow - market is not to over pay for a guy like Staal with big contract. I suspect this is partially why Stamkos was taken off the block for now.
And if any contender loses a star forward from now till the deadline, you can increase the chances of Staal being targeted by 5 fold.
I think I will be a little sick if we aren't able to make this deal.
We are in the thick of an unexpected playoff push.
I think looking at that and the reality of Staal's situation from not only our perspective but any potential acquiring team's own perspective, it is all about rental fit. For the remainder of Staal's salary, we would need to take something back/or eat his. If we take away the eat salary option, then we'd need to take a salary back. This can be done favorably by looking at what we are getting back equally as: short term rental.
So what other teams in a playoff push have players on expiring contracts? If we can identify a player there that could be useful to our current unexpected drive - without taking on more than the expiring contract, then I think that is a really smart move and opens up a lot of options.
The difficulty in the deal though is convincing the acquiring team to throw in a 1st rounder or high-end prospect. Again, giving up the latter seems to make absolutely no sense for the acquiring team. Unless they are stock filled with talent. That would only work if for example, if a team like the Oilers and their current mix actually were contenders. Then they might want to trade away some depth for experience to go along with Eric's skillset. I don't really see that many of the teams contending this year having necessarily deep coffers, so that might be much to expect also (a high end prospect in return, however, Nashville seems to be a potential close fit there in that they have a fair amount of forward depth in the system)
This also makes it possible for that team to also consider a 1st rounder in return, since they would be dealing from a position of strength in forward depth.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/team-rankings/
Looking at the top 10 list, these teams would qualify: Boston, Tampa, Islanders, Red Wings and Ducks.
Now examining the aforementioned five teams current expiring contract situations:
Boston: Lou Eriksson expiring contract that could be a good fit
Tampa: With Stamkos taken off the block - not much else and we don't need defense.
Islanders: Okposo, Nielsen,
Ducks: David Perron
Wings: Brad Richards
I could see the Ducks being a potential suitor here since they are also out west... David Perron could be a good temporary, low risk addition/roster spot replacement for Staal.
Then we just need to work in a 1st rounder OR high end prospect coming back. I doubt they would want to depart with their top chip prospect in Nick Ritchie - but that I would do in a heartbeat. Outside of that, they don't have much forward depth at all - and we aren't looking for defense depth (although if they were willing to part with Theodore..?)
Richards from Detroit could make temporary sense too.
Eric Staal (since the contracts don't negate each other, we'd likely have to retain all or some of his remaining salary this season to make it work)
for
David Perron
a 1st rounder or Nick Ritchie
I think that deal could make sense?
Otherwise, you can apply the same logic with any contender based on the assets the currently have. Like rumored Chicago and the Rangers. They are not going to give away stuff for an expiring contract. They are looking at an upgrade on a position that maybe they are also not getting good bang for their buck on. So again, looking for an expiring contract that is a good temporary fit coming back for Eric Staal, and again try to get either the 1st or a high end prospect throw in, with the focus on forwards over defenseman.
With just over a week to go for the deadline, I think there is still big potential to make a smart move for everyone involved and there is some 'fair' business logic to be applied because teams in general are trending to youth and lower costs overall... without mortgaging or doubling down at risk of their future. Iow - market is not to over pay for a guy like Staal with big contract. I suspect this is partially why Stamkos was taken off the block for now.
And if any contender loses a star forward from now till the deadline, you can increase the chances of Staal being targeted by 5 fold.
I think I will be a little sick if we aren't able to make this deal.
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JamesNorthern
Active member
And even if it isn't a good fit, you could consider taking an defenseman with an expiring contract if the other team only has defense depth and an existing contract on d that is set to be UFA. Conditional that we can get a 1st in return also.
For example, IF the Rangers had D depth (they don't) then taking Yandle's expiring contract for financial fit would be low risk this season, and getting that 1st in return would be our real target. I doubt they give up a prospect in that deal. Anyway, this is not the Rangers reality so...
For example, IF the Rangers had D depth (they don't) then taking Yandle's expiring contract for financial fit would be low risk this season, and getting that 1st in return would be our real target. I doubt they give up a prospect in that deal. Anyway, this is not the Rangers reality so...
cmaleski2
Well-known member
There is absolutely no way a team is going to give us that much for Eric Staal. The entire market for rentals is down and 1st rounders are going to be hard to come by. We can't retain all of Eric's salary/cap hit, only half per CBA rules.
Trading David Perron for Eric Staal straight up would be questionable move for the Ducks at this point. Perron has more goals this year than Eric Staal and has been scoring at almost a point per game pace for the Ducks. I understand the temptation to try to apply the fact we got a first rounder last year for Sekera to Eric and assume that a 1st rounder is a given. Considering that guys like Louis Eriksson and Kyle Okposo also might be available, the market for Eric Staal is probably pretty thin considering how horrible he has been the last 2 months while the rest of the team thrives.
We need to temper our expectations on the return for Eric Staal, its going to be pretty small, if we decide to trade him at all.
Elsker
Well-known member
Barring NYR interest, with at least one other org's interest to drive them over the edge, I agree.
And could well be he turns out to be our "don't rock the boat" rental.
We'll know in a few days just how GMRF is going to play this one.
Earning the big bucks, he is.
CanadaCanes
Well-known member
No matter how you slice it if Staal is not moved it will be an opportunity lost yet again for this franchise, period. We can wax all day long about the thick of a playoff race, no great offers, a no trade clause etc but in reality he needs to be traded for so many reasons for the future good of the org. If Francis truly believes in the vision of the future then he needs to make the trade.
ThinIce
Well-known member
Yeah, I agree - but the concern is that there won't be any worthwhile offers for E Staal. Getting back something is easy to dream about, but what if no one wants him? There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that Ronnie is trying to move him and I hope - desperately - that he can find a way to do so by the deadline, but it takes two to tango.
TheBigKahuna
Well-known member
A lot of people are convinced that Staal's output problems are scenery and crappy team mate based.
SlapShots
Well-known member
Watched Elliotte Friedman and Damien Cox last night. Cox said that Staal has not been asked to waive his NMC nor has he volunteered to waive it. He also said that RF has not made an offer nor have their really been any discussions about Staal's furture. Cox attributed to it to the ownership situation in Carolina and PK's uncertainty. Not sure I see that correlation completely, but that may be a factor.
However, reading Bruce Garrioch's column today, Staal is going to be traded.
However, reading Bruce Garrioch's column today, Staal is going to be traded.
It's Bruce Garrioch. He's as reliable as Eklund.
Habsy
Just Walking About Aimlessly
Well that's good because we all know people tasked with running multimillion-dollar professional sports teams don't normally keep their phones close by.
cmaleski2
Well-known member
We talked earlier about E.Staal to the Rangers. An Oscar Lindberg and a pick/prospect for E. Staal trade doesn't work for the Rangers, they don't have the cap room even if we eat half of Eric's salary/cap hit, to make that trade. They would have to get real creative to get Eric Staal to the Rangers.
JamesNorthern
Active member
the essense of what I mean is that another way to look at this is that any contender, with an expiring contract, under achieving and/or overpaid player could be swapped for Eric Staal. Whatever that player is coming back we inject into our little playoff aspirations and wipe our hands after. What we need though is something else coming back, and depending on what we are taking for our under achieving center, it gets complicated figuring out fair value in that kind of scenario.
I hold out hope though that if and when Ladd gets traded, this will increase chances of Staal being dealt. And if Ladd is dealt to a contender out west, the rest of the pack might be more inclined to sweeten the pot even on a center depth pick up in Staal. I mean, I still think he has a lot of value. but it depends on how you see it. he isn't playing bad out there. he draws a lot of attention.
I hold out hope though that if and when Ladd gets traded, this will increase chances of Staal being dealt. And if Ladd is dealt to a contender out west, the rest of the pack might be more inclined to sweeten the pot even on a center depth pick up in Staal. I mean, I still think he has a lot of value. but it depends on how you see it. he isn't playing bad out there. he draws a lot of attention.
To be fair, Garrioch DOES have sources, unlike Eklund. Sadly, they all retired from NHL front offices 15 years ago, but still ... sources.
CanadaCanes
Well-known member
Usually the Dominos have to start to fall before the dam breaks...and I tend to agree that Ladd seems to be the forward that has the most appeal at the moment on the open market. I read last night online that one team has already offered a first rounder and a solid prospect for Ladd...but until that deal is made or until Ladd signs an extension in Winnipeg, we wait on Eric. Last week I was 50-50 on IF Eric would be moved, this week I'm 80-20 that something will get done.
Elsker
Well-known member
As an anecdotal data point, Ron Frickin' Francis himself walked by elskling and me on the club-level concourse last night before the game (Arena Club buffet...highly recommend it!).
elskling first picked him out from quite a ways away, as she noted afterward "because he wasn't moving like the rest of the fans".
Indeed, he had quite the easy-going swagger to his walk and a relaxed, smiling face/form as he "hey'd!" his way by us.
Looked to me like a man who had already made his deal and was quite comfortable, if not outright pleased, with it.
Hoping that's the case and everyone involved is just waiting until we are closer to the deadline to pull the trigger.
Would also point out I've seen JR walking down the same concourse post-game many a night looking like he wished he had a can to kick...and a player to trade.
elskling first picked him out from quite a ways away, as she noted afterward "because he wasn't moving like the rest of the fans".
Indeed, he had quite the easy-going swagger to his walk and a relaxed, smiling face/form as he "hey'd!" his way by us.
Looked to me like a man who had already made his deal and was quite comfortable, if not outright pleased, with it.
Hoping that's the case and everyone involved is just waiting until we are closer to the deadline to pull the trigger.
Would also point out I've seen JR walking down the same concourse post-game many a night looking like he wished he had a can to kick...and a player to trade.
CanadaCanes
Well-known member
I like your optimism Elsker and if that was indeed the case just for conversation sake, when do you make the announcement and would they consider holding Eric out of the lineup Tuesday or Thursday? If you had a deal in place you certainly would not want to risk injury yet the vultures in the media would swarm on a healthy scratch for Eric....