Buddy, when did I make that argument? When you get over yourself for a minute, you'll realize that not all of us have the same opinion.
Fair enough...I just love that nobody else fires their opinion in when Zeke pushes a ridiculous argument, because their opinion at the time looks bad on Bargnani, put then fires in their contrary opinion a few pages later when it can be used to defend Bargnani. It's the bias inherent in the silence that was irking me there...but fair enough, it's not a hive mind around here, I get that.
Stats are stats, but you can't tell me that David Lee would be a 20/12 player on LA, or Cleveland, or any of the top teams. The rebounding numbers would probably come close if he played the minutes he did in NY (which is doubtful considering how much of a liability he is defensively), but the scoring is way inflated because of the fact that there is no one else there that can score.
The scoring is only inflated if the opportunity is inflated. Lee is taking 15 shots a night...would he be taking 15 shots a night on a contender? No, probably not. But I would have a hard time understanding why if Bargnani can take 14 shots a game on a good to very good team like the Raptors, that a player like Lee wouldn't deserve something similar (13-14) a game on a similar playoff team. Guys like Aldridge, Boozer, West, etc put up a similar amount of shots, and are no better, no more efficient offensively than a guy like Lee is.
As for the rebounding, an elite rebounder is simply an elite rebounder. He's going to pull down board no matter where he plays, who he plays with. There are in upward of 70-80 rebounds a night up for grabs in most NBA games, and elite rebounders take rebounds away from the opposing team more so than they do away from team mates. Play next to another elite rebounder, you might see his average fall to 10-10.5, but there's simply no evidence to suggest that two elite rebounders can't share the glass together.
For example, Pau Gasol has actually seen his rebounding go up playing next to Bynum & Odom..and though Bynum's rebounding is down 2 a game, but Odom & Gasol are at, or close career high marks in rebounding this year. That's 3 elite level rebounders managing to share the glass and the biggest downward effect being seen is Bynum being down 2 a game from a career high mark that he set 2 years ago...in 35 games before his knee exploded.
Likewise, Zach Randolph (who pulled down 12.5 a game last year next to the aforemention Lee, who pulled down 11+ last year as well, even next to the elite rebounding Randolph) is close to matching that this year, with Marc Gasol putting up elite rebounding numbers (9.4) right next to him. It's simply mythical to believe that someone capable of elite rebounding numbers will suffer more than a minimal loss in rebounds by playing next to another elite rebounder...for reasons I've already explained. Elite rebounders do a better job of boxing out and clearing space around the basket to rebound inside of. They take rebounds away from the opposition, not away from their teammates.
Look at his numbers a few years ago. Hovering around the 10/9, 10/10 mark, while still playing close to 30 minutes a game. The Knicks then began to suck donkey balls even more than they did before, and they began to sell off all their players to prepare for the 2010 free agency period, and the guy doubled his scoring output as a result. It's not tough to see. The guy is a nice hustle player and I would welcome him on my team, but Bargs clearly has a higher impact on his team with his range, quickness relative to his size and his back to the basket game, where Lee is virtually non-existent.
Ask a lot of Knicks fans how they felt Lee was brought along and you'll get nothing but frustration from them. They were playing him behind contract mistakes like Jerome James, etc despite the fact he was clearly a starting calibre big man.
What you're seeing is a guy who was ridiculously efficient before he started getting the ball, get the ball more often...because he had deserved it all along. His shooting percentages have always been stellar, what has changed is how often they're getting him the ball
06-07: 6.9fga 10.7pts .60%
07-08: 7.6fga 10.8pts .55%
08-09: 11.7fga 16.0pts .55%
09-10: 15.4fga 20.3pts .56%
That's a matter of opportunity lacking, not ability...and let's be honest, you're using the Knicks decision making as a knock on him when they've been the biggest cluster**** of an organization in the show this side of the Clippers. He's clearly shown that they were dead wrong not giving him the ball in those first two seasons listed (his 2nd & 3rd in the league)
I'll admit that he's not suited to defend the 5, he'd be much better suited to playing the 4 and being a 2A/B option on a good team. But that's really no different than legit criticism of Bargnani. He's not suited to be a #1 option on a good team, and he's not really suited to play centre (though his reasons are offensive, while Lee's are defensive)
