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OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

MindzEye said:
Dominate is a strong word, but Barg's talents are definitely better suited for a 1 on 1 game than Lee's...though Lee's talents are far better suited for the NBA game
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Bargs is better, period.

Not only does he have superior one-on-one skills, but he's better defensively one on one and helpwise as well.

The only thing Lee does better is rebound.

Alston would have eaten him 1 on 1, badly. Alston was the most feared PG at the Rucker for years...and a lot of NBA players run at Rucker park in the summer. Some of Alston & Marbury's battles at the Rucker are legendary in NYC, and surely you're not going to suggest that Jackson could have hung with a young Marbury on the playground?
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See, the thing about Rucker Park is that there's no NBA players there.

Alston can't shoot, Jackson could.

Alston can't defend, Jackson could.

What?

You're ****ing lost
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No, really, I'm not.

Saying that Lee resembles Jackson in that comparison while Bargs resembles Alston is ludicrous and senseless.
 
PlayerToBeNamedLater said:
Yup. NY wants to sign REAL core players.


No...NY wants real franchise players...like Lebron & Bosh.

Lee is imo, a very solid 2A/B option to a team with an elite wing player. Put Lee on Miami for instance and he and DWade do some serious damage.


We saw what the league thought last year when nobody was willing to put up big money to get him. Even as a RFA, if a team offered up a big salary, the Knicks wouldn't have matched given their plans in 2010.
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Sure, and nobody wanted to put big money on a 6'9 white guy who came out of "nowhere" to look like a very solid big. He averaged 16/11.7 last year. Solid numbers, but not the kind of guy you throw a huge deal at. Only two GM's threw big money at anyone last year. Colangelo for Hedo...because frankly another losing season, Bosh bolts and BC's job starts to look precarious....and Dumars throwing big money at Gordon for similar job safety reasons. Everyone is saving their sheckles for this summer. Come talk to me if Lee doesn't sign a 5 yr 50+ million dollar deal this summer.
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zeke said:
Bargs is better, period.

Not only does he have superior one-on-one skills, but he's better defensively one on one and helpwise as well.

The only thing Lee does better is rebound.
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and score, and pass, and steal...and shoot FT's

The stats don't lie...you don't have the faintest clue what you're talking about



See, the thing about Rucker Park is that there's no NBA players there
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well...and this is just flat out untrue

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3UsTrrg2bg"]YouTube- and1 kobe bryant at rucker park from nba tv[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U56pKpZPA4o"]YouTube- Vince Carter Rucker Park Windmill Oop Rare[/ame]

Alston can't shoot, Jackson could.

Alston can't defend, Jackson could.
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Alston would have slaughtered Jackson's ankles one on one

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za8WK9h1PnY"]YouTube- The Last of the True Playground Legends, Rafer Alston[/ame]

slaughtered

and for the record...if Jackson can shoot:

Career 3pt% .332%

why is it that Alston can't? .353%



No, really, I'm not.

Saying that Lee resembles Jackson in that comparison while Bargs resembles Alston is ludicrous and senseless.
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Both Jackson and Lee get by on solid, solid fundamentals and overall efficiency. Alston in his youth (and in the NBA to a lesser extent) got by with his physical tools (quickness) and overall "skill" level that was higher than that of many of his peers...despite clearly not thinking the game well.

and btw...to say that Mark Jackson was a good defender is hilarious. You clearly didn't watch the man play.
 
zeke said:
Kurt Thomas is a good comparison.

Maybe Clarence Weatherspoon works as well.
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Both are horrible comparisons.

This keeps getting more and more hilarious, as well as more and more clear how little you know about the game.
 
Brand minus the shot blocking and overall defensive ability is actually a decent comparable.

Just like Bargnani being Mehmet Okur with a better 1st step is also a good comparable.
 
Efficiency Rating tells us that Jose Calderon was as good as the likes of Pierce and Kidd and Billups last year, and top-50 player in the NBA.
 
Yeah, he's like Okur.

Except for the minor details that he's taller, faster, can create his own shot, is better defensively, and much better blocking shots.

at least they're both white.
 
Which is why no one stat tells the whole story, and why every stat needs to be placed in context. Obviously any efficiency stat is going to reward point guards who create a lot of offence, without turning the ball over.

Stop being such a reactionary defensive bitch and start thinking.
 
heh. that's awesome.

You go on and on about efficiency rating, until it says something good about a player you don't like - then it's misleading.

I'm not being reactionary in the least. Your claim that Lee is better than Bargnani is nonsense, and when Lee plays on a team as good as the Raps, with a player as good as Bosh, your efficiency stats will show it.

Lee is not quick enough to be a good PF, nor big enough to be a good C.
 
Yeah, he's like Okur.

Except for the minor details that he's taller,
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7'0 vs 6'11...so though technically correct...c'mon

faster, can create his own shot,
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Which doesn't matter for much if they produce similar totals. Substance >>> Style

is better defensively
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Defensive win shares, & Defensive rating disagrees...but whatever helps you sleep at night.

and much better blocking shots.
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1.6bpg vs 1.3bpg per 36 minutes

at least they're both white.
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and European, and similar sized, that play a similar style of ball and put up similar numbers at similar portions of their career.

In fairness, Bargnani came to the league 2 yrs younger than Okur did...but just for shits and giggles

Okur's best season Vs Bargnani's best

Okur (26) 18.0 PPG 9.1rpg .343 3pt% .460fg% 2.4ast .9blk
Bargnani (24) 17.5ppg 6.3rpg .367 3pt% .475fg% 1.0ast 1.5blk

Of course, Bargs was the better prospect and is doing it 2 yrs younger than Okur did this...and of course Okur hasn't even improved on that season from a few years back

But this is a far better comparison than a 6'6 Weatherspoon, or Kurt Thomas...who has only ever scored more than 11.5ppg in a season once, is to David Lee.
 
zeke said:
heh. that's awesome.

You go on and on about efficiency rating, until it says something good about a player you don't like - then it's misleading.
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I've been clear, numerous times, that I don't believe any one statistic tells the complete story. In fact, in discussing EFF just a few posts ago I used the 21 vs 20 example, and stated that with a rating that close it's impossible to use EFF as the sole deciding statistic.

When the gap in EFF is almost a full 10 points though, well you can flat out go **** yourself and stop being a tool.

I'm not being reactionary in the least. Your claim that Lee is better than Bargnani is nonsense, and when Lee plays on a team as good as the Raps, with a player as good as Bosh, your efficiency stats will show it.
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Statistical landslide...monstrous statistical landslide. That fact that you keep dodging that...you, of all people, speaks ****ing volumes.

Lee is not quick enough to be a good PF, nor big enough to be a good C.
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He's already a very good centre...he just doesn't defend the position well overall.
 
Make a Bargs vs everyone else thread. I see the thread highlighted thinking some interesting news and all I see is quote after quote between ME and Zeke.

Keep arguing but have a semi private bitch fest.

PS. I love that the BlueJays thread started with the post about the Jays signing Shannon Stewart.

And this Raps one started with TJ clooned his head off the paint.

AGES AGO. Good on you guys.
 
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