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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

Again, people are getting waaaay waaaay waaaay too caught up believing the BS the media reports as fact.

When AA wants a player, he more often than not gets that player (Rasmus, Gose, etc). Just because the Jays were 'in on' Latos, Gio, Garza etc doesn't mean they're seriously interested. Hell if you listen to the media the Jays have been in on every free agent or trade this offseason. None of that means that we're not willing to spend money; it just means don't believe every shred of BS the media concocts and then use it as evidence to go and say 'look the Jays won't spend waaah waaah waaah'.

This whole argument is absurd. None of us have any way of knowing whether or not the money is there, and regardless of that, it makes more sense to search out high-value contracts and players under team control vs. an equally performing player making more/not under control.
 
I like oswalt, but honestly I'd rather have one of our young arms take that spot than an aging veteran who has had injury problems the last couple years.
 
Montana said:
The team isn't interested in spending big chunks of cash, for marginal one year upgrades.....nor should they be. That money is better served being saved for when such a signing could put us over the top.

An Oswalt signing now isn't going to have any positive impact on this team, when we're looking to contend in a year or two....and it would go against what AA has specified his plan is.
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Saying an Oswalt signing wouldn't have a positive impact on the team is ridiculous.

But thats not the point. Its an example. The important point is that an Oswalt signing wouldn't have a negative impact on this team. Equating spending money with stupid, big contracts is just flat out wrong.

No one is saying go out and spend $120 million, and get there however you can. But that doesn't mean you have to spend $60 million and do everything on the cheap either. There is something in between signing Burnett and Ryan and doing nothing.
 
And considering the Jays just signed Oliver and traded for Frasor you can't say that AA's plan is to only have young players and no aging veterans to help the team just this year. An Oswalt signing would be right in line with those moves, aside from the fact that it wouldn't be on the cheap.
 
leafman101 said:
Saying an Oswalt signing wouldn't have a positive impact on the team is ridiculous.
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How would he have an impact on the team in a year or two when he's gone?


But thats not the point. Its an example. The important point is that an Oswalt signing wouldn't have a negative impact on this team. Equating spending money with stupid, big contracts is just flat out wrong.
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Sure it could....it could take away from their international budget, would take away a rotation spot for a young arm that might earn it, and could impact the money available down the road when we are ready to compete.

Spending money just to spend it, without it being part of a focus oto build a championship team, isn't productive.....


No one is saying go out and spend $120 million, and get there however you can. But that doesn't mean you have to spend $60 million and do everything on the cheap either.
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The only moves I care about, are ones that get us closer to building a championship core.....Bautista extension, Romero extension, Santos, Rasmus, Lawrie, Escobar trade and extension, Morrow trade, etc, etc, etc...

Spending significant money on marginal upgrades, that would have no impact on the team when we're ready to compete....is only fruitful to satiate the needs of the fanbase.

I've no interest in that, and am hopeful AA doesn't either.
 
leafman101 said:
No one is saying go out and spend $120 million,
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There are fans saying this though.

And considering the Jays just signed Oliver and traded for Frasor you can't say that AA's plan is to only have young players and no aging veterans to help the team just this year. An Oswalt signing would be right in line with those moves, aside from the fact that it wouldn't be on the cheap
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The jays need bullpen help and its not realistic to bring in a bunch of young arms that are normally starters to do this. Hence the more veteran help.
 
leafman101 said:
And considering the Jays just signed Oliver and traded for Frasor you can't say that AA's plan is to only have young players and no aging veterans to help the team just this year. An Oswalt signing would be right in line with those moves, aside from the fact that it wouldn't be on the cheap.
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Not it wouldn't.....both those guys came dirt cheap, and can be easily moved for assets at the deadline.


Oswalt could be moved at the deadline.....after you've made him your second highest paid player for 3/4's of a season....All the while assuming the risk of him getting hurt, being unmovable, and simply being a massive sunk cost, for a team that can't afford such frivolous spending.
 
Montana said:
How would he have an impact on the team in a year or two when he's gone?




Sure it could....it could take away from their international budget, would take away a rotation spot for a young arm that might earn it, and could impact the money available down the road when we are ready to compete.

Spending money just to spend it, without it being part of a focus oto build a championship team, isn't productive.....





The only moves I care about, are ones that get us closer to building a championship core.....Bautista extension, Romero extension, Santos, Rasmus, Lawrie, Escobar trade and extension, Morrow trade, etc, etc, etc...

Spending significant money on marginal upgrades, that would have no impact on the team when we're ready to compete....is only fruitful to satiate the needs of the fanbase.

I've no interest in that, and am hopeful AA doesn't either.
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They still have to play seasons until they are "ready to compete." If you are all for just giving up and not caring until they win 90 games good for you, but I can't get on board with that.

But evidently you don't actually believe that considering you liked the Oliver and Frasor moves.
 
Montana said:
Not it wouldn't.....both those guys came dirt cheap, and can be easily moved for assets at the deadline.


Oswalt could be moved at the deadline.....after you've made him your second highest player for 3/4's of a season....
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Yeah exactly. The only difference is Oswalt wouldn't be cheap. And the Jays are looking to do things on the cheap. That was my point.
 
leafman101 said:
They still have to play seasons until they are "ready to compete."
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That doesn't equate to having to blow big money on one year stop gaps.

If you are all for just giving up and not caring until they win 90 games good for you, but I can't get on board with that.
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Beautiful straw man.

But evidently you don't actually believe that considering you liked the Oliver and Frasor moves.
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Love them....directly in line with what he's done the last two seasons, signing/acquiring cheap/low risk bullpen arms, that he can flip at the deadline for prospects/picks that help build the foundation.

Signing high priced, aged starters.....hadn't been.....not should it be.
 
leafman101 said:
Yeah exactly. The only difference is Oswalt wouldn't be cheap. And the Jays are looking to do things on the cheap. That was my point.
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Right.....blowing big money on old, one year stop gaps, that cost exponentinally more then the guys you tried to use as comparables, would be stupid.
 
Montana said:
That doesn't equate to having to blow big money on one year stop gaps.



Beautiful straw man.




Love them....directly in line with what he's done the last two seasons, signing/acquiring cheap/low risk bullpen arms, that he can flip at the deadline for prospects/picks that help build the foundation.

Signing high priced, aged starters.....hadn't been.....not should it be.
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Why not. A stop gap is what they need. Better than giving away all these top prospects for 2nd rate arms like Garza and Gio (which apparently AA smartly didn't want to do).
 
The fans are saying it because Beeston said it in interviews. The 120 million payroll.

And no rated, your way off base with the "we tried spending on everyone under JP and it failed.". JP had to spend money since his whole rebuilding approach was a big failure and he needed to fill holes. That is the difference between he and AA is AA is doing it the right way with scouting, development, minor leagues...JP had it all wrong. AA is building a strong farm system from the ground up. However, there is a time when the farm system won't be enough and spending money will be needed.

And nobody is saying going out and spending for the sake of spending but it does not appear like the money is there anyway.
 
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No, Burhle would have been a JP move. Signing a guy to a one year deal by taking advantage of his health situation last year would be an AA thing to do.

Other than the fact that the team isn't willing to spend.
 
Nah, it'd be a classic short sighted JP move.....AA hasn't shown a proclivity for that type of big free agent signing whatsoever.

In fact he's specifically said he only feels such signings only make sense for a team that is ready to contend.
 
Yeah, because he won't/can't spend money.

You say short sighted like its a bad thing. Implying that it would somehow hurt in the future. But that is the beauty of one year contracts. They don't hurt in the future.

Signing Oswalt would be just as short sighted as picking up Oliver and Frasor. JP never took advantage of situations like this to get a good deal. He gave long term deals to guys like Thomas.
 
leafman101 said:
No, Burhle would have been a JP move. Signing a guy to a one year deal by taking advantage of his health situation last year would be an AA thing to do.

Other than the fact that the team isn't willing to spend.
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Romero, Morrow & Alvarez are guaranteed rotation spots. You'll have McGowan, Drabek & Cecil fighting it out for the other two spots and several SP prospects knocking on the door. I wish AA was out throwing big $ at Fielder, but going after Oswalt at this time seems unnecessary. We won't be making the playoffs the way this team is currently constructed, so the most we could hope for in signing Oswalt to a 1yr deal is that he stays healthy and we flip him at the deadline for a prospect or two. Is that worth $14-15 million and holding others back from a rotation spot for a year?
 
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