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Round 2 | Montréal vs. Boston

What a mockery of the game to have 2 of the most storied franchises play at 12:30pm a Saturday afternoon.

I know they NHL have a contract with NBC, but the league is not making their product better by allowing this....they will have even less viewers than if they had it on Saturday night, and they won't make more money. and this NHL-NBC deal expires in 2021, so we still have lots of years with Saturday noon games.

Shooting themselves in the foot....

What happens with Rogers now ??? I'd imagine that they will have priority on all Canadian teams as of next year, so they will veto NBC from allow shitty Saturday afternoon games involving Canadian teams.
 
BKerr said:
Yes, clearly the only stat I mentionned was points.

And Murray played exactly 0 games in the first round, a round where we controlled the puck better than at any point this season... coincidence? Nope.

He brings down the team in two ways.

1) We have to shelter him with offensive zone starts. Instead of giving these to Subban and Markov who can use them to create offense, we give them to Murray so we can shelter him. That takes away from the effectiveness of every d in our lineup but taking a disproportionate amount of offensive zone starts... something we don't do with Weaver and Bouillion or Tinordi.

2) He is so bad that he makes anyone he plays with worse. Basically the other team's possession numbers with murray on the ice rival a powerplay. How does this make his teammates worse? Simple, if the other team has the puck in our end of the ice... we can't score.

The problems Murray brings are ridiculous... and they aren't just seen in advanced stats. Just watch him out there. HE CAN'T ****ING SKATE. He is literally the worst skater in the NHL, I'm not even exaggerating. He is so bloody slow.


Think of it this way, For every 10 minutes of even strength Murray plays, we are pinned in our own end for 7:30-8:00 of it. Now if the entire team played 7:30 of the first 10 minutes hemmed in their own end, what would your reaction be? Would you think the team is playing well, generating very little offensively? No, of course not... so why is it acceptable to have a player who every time he's on the ice he is in his own end of the ice.


Yes, I get it, he's big and strong.

But here's the thing..... to win, you need size, strength, skill and speed. Not just 2/4. 2 out of 4 doesn't get you anywhere.
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I can't figure where you got the minus 3 for Murray against the Bruins this year. I see him at +/- 0 reviewing the boxscores over at nhl.com. And just for the sake of clarity I don't believe anyone sees Murray as anything more than what he is, myself included. You have him scoring only 2/4 on your size, strength, skill and speed valuations. And I agree. It's just that I don't see Bou scoring any higher than 2/4 himself based on his speed and decent enough skill.

And you do provide enough stats against Murray to make a good case, however if this is between him and Bou, I hold my nose between these two marginal #6 D men and choose Murray in a limited capacity as he was effectively used against Boston during the season.

No Hab defenceman played more SH minutes than Murray against the Bruins all yr. In fact he led all Habs in sh mins against Boston in 3 of 4 games helping to limit Boston to a 1/13 success rate in those 4 games. I doubt we go 3-1 against Boston this year without those numbers. And the Bruins just went 6/16 on the pp against the Red Wings. We can't afford that and if Murray is out, those big minutes have to be replaced just as effectively. FWIW he exercised some discipline and only had 2 mins in penalty time over the course of 4 games against Boston. And then there is the size factor which matters against Boston. Given how he played Boston this yr, I don't believe all your red flags against him are warranted. He played about 13-14 mins per gm against Boston this year, and he'd have to be deployed in no greater capacity than that. Granted, that's something to deal with. Bou can log more time. But I'm not so sure that's a good thing in this setting.

Anyway, bottom line is...we see 55 in game one based on a good showing against Tampa. We'll see how long that lasts mind you. If we're successful nothing changes and I'm good with that too.
 
I figure I might as well re-post this from nearly a week ago:

Food for thought.

67Sound‏ When people rip on Penguins veterans why don't they mention Rob Scuderi, who is getting absolutely murdered. Corsi rel -12.6%.

67Sound Sorry I forgot when assigning blame in NHL it can never be the big stiff's fault--blame *must* go to skill players.

67Sound Meanwhile I hear people saying *Mike Brown* is the reason the Sharks are better. The same guy who sucked balls on the Oilers and Leafs.

67Sound If he had magical powers (he clearly has no on ice powers since his teams get dummied when he is out there) why didn't they work in EDM/TOR?

67Sound Or MAYBE the difference is the Sharks dumped two big stiffs in Murray and Handzus and freed up more minutes for young skilled guys.

67Sound Fun fact: last year Sharks were puttering along around 50% in rolling ten game FF last year. The moment they dumped Murray it shot up to 57%

67Sound Meanwhile the Penguins had been comfortably over 50%. Acquired Murray and they nosedived down into the mid 40s.

67Sound RT @Le_Maheux @67sound *eyes Montreal's curve once Murray returned from injury* *eyes Montreal's curve in Murray-less playoffs*

67Sound I have trouble believing a 3d pair Dman can have that much impact but his last three teams have been dramatically better in his absence.

67Sound Yet inevitably this summer idiot teams will line up to give big money to the next Doug Murray like Orpik (who gets killed without Martin).

67Sound RT @dickwasp @67sound Doug Murray literally drags down the Habs' best players like, 7-10%. It's insane. http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=362&withagainst=true&season=2013-14&sit=5v5
 
Re: The Second Round Thread

Murray is so ridiculously bad i remain amazed hes in the nhl.

The pk shows no difference with him in or out of the lineup and the 5v5 is attrocious
 
I'm looking for, specifically, info concerning the Habs against Boston. Namely Murray for the sake of this discussion....and this is what I found. Keep in mind when viewing the numbers Scoring chances against, that while Boullion looks a little better, he barely put in PK minutes against Boston, while Murray logged the most of any Hab defenceman against those guys. Furthermore, it's Weaver and Tinordi with some bad defensive numbers against the Beaner's this year. There are graphs provided at the link source outlining all Habs players, it's worth a look. Right click "view image" on the graphs for an enlarged version....for anyone caught unaware that is.

__________________________________________________________________​

Comparing Habs players' scoring-chance numbers against the Bruins this season

Also including even-strength scoring-chance numbers in the playoffs, and regular season

This post will compare each Montreal Canadiens player's scoring-chance numbers during the regular season with their numbers produced during the playoffs, as well as the numbers they posted against the Boston Bruins this season. Scoring-chance numbers communicated here only reflect those scoring-chances where the player is directly responsible for it's production.

SCORING-CHANCES FOR

As a team, the Habs produced less scoring-chances per-minute against Boston than their season average, and substantially less than the average they produced during the first round of the playoffs.

Douglas Murray (43 minutes played) was directly involved in the production of more scoring-chances per-minute played than any other Habs defenseman against the Bruins this season, while Jarred Tinordi (12 minutes played) was a surprising second. Among Habs defensemen who have played in this year's playoffs, Andrei Markov has produced the most scoring-chances against Boston this season, while Francis Bouillon is second. Markov also produced the most ES scoring-chances per-minute against Tampa Bay in the first round of the playoffs. continued.......

SCORING-CHANCES AGAINST

As a team, the Habs allowed less scoring-chances against per-minute against Boston than they averaged during the season.

Jarred Tinordi (limited minutes) was responsible for substantially more scoring-chances against per-minute than the average Montreal defensemen. Among d-men who have already played in the playoffs, Mike Weaver has been directly responsible for more scoring-chances against versus Boston than any other d-man, while Bouillon has been responsible for the fewest.

Habs d-men have been responsible for fewer scoring-chances against per-minute versus Boston than they averaged during either the regular season or the playoffs.

Ryan White (8 minutes played) was directly responsible for more scoring-chances against per-minute than any other Habs forward. continued.......
 
Two issues with that.

1) Who is this guy and What is his definition of a scoring chance. Its a subjective measure here, not an objective one. All the objective stats show Murray is horrid. Bias questions here are huge when his subjective numbers don't line up with the objective ones.

2) Sample size... 4 games say Murray is good when his previous performances against Boston in a Pittsburgh jersey were just as bad as all of his performances in Montreal/San Jose/Pittsburgh jerseys since 2011. Yeah, I wouldn't call that realiable.
 
northernlou said:
I can't figure where you got the minus 3 for Murray against the Bruins this year.
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I said he was -3 for the Penguins against the Bruins in last year's playoffs. When his corsi was also the 2nd worst amongst all defencemen on the Penguins (and worst if we count D who played half their playoff games or more).

This year he was even against the Bruins because our goalies played very well against Boston, and didn't give up an even strength goal with him on the ice. Based on shots against, corsi against, and fenwick against (objective stats) he benefitted greatly from the goaltending propping him up.
 
The only argument I can make about Murray starting against Boston is that they've been playing Chara in front of the net on the PP. Murray is the only one who can possibly move him out of there.
 
BKerr said:
I'm not the only one who has noticed Murray is amongst the worst players in the NHL.

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2014/...loy-douglas-murray-as-an-everyday-defenseman/

http://www.allaboutthehabs.ca/needs-defense-eye-opening-numbers-crankshaft/

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2013/8/22/4648158/analyzing-the-douglas-murray-signing

http://kuklaskorner.com/psh/comments/worst-20-players-by-team-adjusted-corsi

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/strong...k-pittsburgh-penguins-blueline-201400319.html

Also Murray's four games vs Boston..... 0pts, -3,

His relative corsi in last year's playoffs.... -17.5, 2nd worst defenceman on the team, and the only guy worse than him played 1/2 as many playoff games.

Penalties taken per 60.... 2nd worst on the Pens behind only Matt Cooke. So not only was he no improvement to their PK, he actually caused more 4 on 5 situations than any other defenceman.

On the Habs, this year.... Only player with a worse relative corsi (regulars, ie not less than 5 games), Ryan White and George Parros,.... this is despite having the best offensive zone start percentage of any defenceman (not including callups).

When you include quality of competition (very low for Murray) its even worse.

The guy is a ****ing disaster, and has been a disaster since 2011. Before that he wasn't so bad.
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While I appreciate it. We all know....legoalie is the only one that is not convinced and you will never convince him. It is best to just to little pot shots at him :p
 
Re: The Second Round Thread

Yup.... worst zone start amongst all forwards. Toughest competition of all forwards. Best corsi and fenwick of all forwards in the series.

Awesome
 
Re: The Second Round Thread

BKerr said:
Yup.... worst zone start amongst all forwards. Toughest competition of all forwards. Best corsi and fenwick of all forwards in the series.

Awesome
Click to expand...

He doesn't play physical though.

minus 10 FI points
 
Bergeron and Krejci are both very good on the dot.

During the regular season our top guys were:

Eller - 53.2%
Desharnais - 50.8%
White - 50.8%
Briere - 48.9%
Plekanec - 48%

Top non-centers were

Moen - 87.5%
Pacioretty - 60%

In the playoffs our top guys are:

Bournival - 71.4%
Plekanec - 53.9%
Desharnais - 52.2%
Prust - 50.0%
Briere - 44.4%
Eller - 40%

Conversely, the Bruins in the playoffs are:

Krejci - 57.6%
Bergeron - 56.1%
Soderberg - 50.0%
Campbell - 47.8%
 
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