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**William Nylander signs for 6 years, per Dreger**

Montana said:
Nylander had to get his in the second season, so the Leafs could get a $6.9m cap hit in 2-6....instead of the $7.5m of the actual deal. We still made him whole year one with the $2m signing bonus....but his first fat signing bonuses couldn't come until years two ($8.3m July 1st, 700k salary)
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Yep, good point.
 
Montana said:
The key is tho....there's more old guys in the NHLPA than there is kids, and those older guys are gonna feel the pinch very accutely.

You're right it might be too late....but I think Mindz is right that they're gonna push damn hard to get that money more balanced. Or try to put something in to keep it from getting even more out of wack.

There's a lot of guys who went cheap on their RFA deals like they were "supposed" to....and now are becoming UFAs for the first time & won't get that one monster deal they'd always been promised.

That's gonna be an issue.
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For sure. The vets have a lot of sway in the PA. They are not going to be happy. The owners can likely leverage this to get something done.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Who’s in that boat, just out of curiosity?
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Just in house we saw it with JVR only getting a 5 year deal....historically that player gets the full 8.

Gardiner is another who two-four years ago would be in line for a monster 8 year deal of upwards of $7m+.....he's now likely to only get one or the other. 8 year deal might even be off the table completely.

From a PA side tho, it's obviously not as rudimentary as who it impacts this year, as it is the obvious trend...and it's ramification 3, 4, 5 years from now as it continues to build steam. (For instance the huge pool of RFA's getting monster deals this offseason, will have a massive impact on future UFA contracts, as a ton of the pie is eaten up)
 
I don’t really see Gardiner getting more than $6m on a long term deal if he went UFA.

I’d expect if we wanted to extend him, we could do it for $5.75m or so for five or six years.
 
Term in lieu of caphit/salary might be how they do it. Term is now of greater value to vets. Jake seems like a guy that won't drop off with age as much as others. Not sure I really want him around long term, but it sure seems like the Leafs do.
 
I'm cool with something in the 5 x 5.5 range for Jake. Dont really want any piece of his decline or with paying him his UFA worth. I think we're set up to replace him internally quite soon with dermott, Lilly and sandin with the outside chance that one of these later round skilled kids dubas just drafted turns out as well
 
Montana said:
Dubas wanted a $6m x 6 deal. Buying one free agent year.
Nylander first asked for $8.5m x 8 selling three UFA years.

Nylander got $7.5m x 6.


We're also paying him $17m in real money between now and July 2nd.


He was an RFA so Dubas could never really "lose"....but we're absolutely the ones who capitulated in large part to their demands. The $6.9m per is on the high end of the scale of what we expected and even that's only after using the loophole that cuts future cap hits.

Dubas made the right decision.....Gross & Nylanders simply gained far more from this holdout than we did.
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Where are you getting those figures for what Dubas wanted? Are you seriously saying they offered less than the prominent comparables? I don't believe that, mostly because there was no reason for them to do that.

The Leafs wanted something with a cap hit between 6 and 7. It may have taken bonus shenanigans, but they got that.

The bonus stuff is something that will be revisited no doubt, but that isn't our problem at all.

Getting what you want isn't capitulation. The cap hit is the only thing that really matters for a team like ours.
 
Volcanologist said:
Where are you getting those figures for what Dubas wanted?
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LeBrun said Dubas started at $6m x 6 in the offseason.

All of CJ/Elliott/Kyper/Bob/Dreger deep in to negotiations, had the Leafs offer at $6.3m x 6.....Lebrun added "Leafs desperately didn't want to go above $6.5m"......Kyper said about a week or two ago, we were considering going to Pastarnak's AAV.

I didn't say anything that wasn't at some point a direct report from one of the credible guys. (Kyper we all take with a grain of salt, but he's surprisingly accurate with his reporting for the most part.

Areously saying they offered less than the prominent comparables?
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We basically know it to be fact....unless we think they collectively decided to tell the same lies.

I don't believe that, mostly because there was no reason for them to do that.
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More than welcome to believe what you wish.

The Leafs wanted something with a cap hit between 6 and 7. It may have taken bonus shenanigans, but they got that.

The bonus stuff is something that will be revisited no doubt, but that isn't our problem at all.

Getting what you want isn't capitulation. The cap hit is the only thing that really matters for a team like ours.
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If you craft your own narrative whole cloth...it's absolutely easier to paint it as Dubas not having caved at all. 100% agree.
 
craft my narrative whole cloth?

kay.

I'm going to go ahead and enjoy that the Leafs got what they wanted. It's great news.
 
A made up narrative might have as much accuracy as the hockey media did when we get down to specific numbers. I don't think the combined hockey media has one credible source within MLSE anymore. So them stating what number dubas is "desperate" to stay under sounds a lot like click bait media to me.

One thing I've tried to remain attached to through all of this was comparables. Willy signed in terms of ABC after this season (which is all that matters to the club) exactly where his comparables would suggest
 
I don't get giving LeBrun all this credibility. He's broken exactly nothing out of the Leafs camp. He has no demonstrable record of having any access with them.
 
MindzEye said:
A made up narrative might have as much accuracy as the hockey media did when we get down to specific numbers. I don't think the combined hockey media has one credible source within MLSE anymore. So them stating what number dubas is "desperate" to stay under sounds a lot like click bait media to me.
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I mean.....everything they reported, pretty much aligns with how things appear to have played out.

...bet easier to dismiss if they didn't appear to have things pretty nailed down. (Savard/Elliotte/CJ all had $6.9m about a week or two ago, on a six year term, and that the two sides were still 300k apart....with both feeling they'd already moved a ton)..

We can dismiss it all...but it sure looks like it was accurate.

One thing I've tried to remain attached to through all of this was comparables. Willy signed in terms of ABC after this season (which is all that matters to the club) exactly where his comparables would suggest]
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This just goes to my RFA comments.....you can only "lose" within a certain spectrum of numbers in RFA negotiations. (Unless you're Edmonton buying a ton of UFA years & paying an Edmonton tax).

On that spectrum....we quite clearly landed on the Nylander side.
 
BeLeafer said:
I can't recall right now but at least one other player signed a lockout protected contract recently. But, yeah, there's some advanced gymnastics going on with this contract.
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This has been happening for a couple years. There's a bunch of "lockout protected" deals.
 
BeLeafer said:
I don't get giving LeBrun all this credibility. He's broken exactly nothing out of the Leafs camp. He has no demonstrable record of having any access with them.
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It's not any one guy.....so much as everything they all said, checks with what others had said.

I kinda don't get why every feels the need to paint it as Dubas having "won". I've been the guys biggest fan since the day we hired him, but the evidence seems pretty clear here that Gross did phenomenally well.....and we had to cave.

I'm not shitting on Dubas, don't think he did anything wrong, don't see any real missteps......Gross just maximizes the little leverage he had, and won the negotiations. Kudos to him.

They both played it right.....Gross just got more of what he wanted. (Suspect if we weren't Cup contenders, and we're middle of the pack/bottom feeders, Dubas would likely have been far more reticent to move the amount he did, not to mention the fact the only reason we could move the amount we did, is the massive amount of cap space we have for this season.)
 
MindzEye said:
One thing I've tried to remain attached to through all of this was comparables. Willy signed in terms of ABC after this season (which is all that matters to the club) exactly where his comparables would suggest
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Where he landed in his comparables, kinda backs up everything these guys reported....we paid him on the high end of his comparables (especially when factoring actual production....p/60 is great for analyzing what a guy might be capable of, it likely isn't the #1 driver for getting paid tho, versus what you'd actually produced...convo for another day tho)

For 5.7 seasons of work, he's going to make $42 million dollars....he was made whole by being paid $8.77m this season for ~55 games.

They're also getting ~18m over the first two years of the deal.

....at nearly every turn, them holding out for this long resulted in them getting what they wanted.


Both sides played it right....both sides ultimately got something they'll be more than happy with (us do to RFA leverage, them due to the gains they made by holding out).....everyone won.


They just had to play hardball to get what they wanted, and deserve full marks for actually achieving it.
 
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