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Eric Staal Thread

Interesting ideas JN, but I expect the Rangers a going to find a trade partner in the Western Conference willing to give them a lesser NHL DMan and a high draft pick for Yandle in a simpler trade. Also, I'm not quite sure the Rangers (or the Canes) are going to see it in their best interests to trade with each other considering the Canes are still technically competing with the Rangers for a playoff spot. Also what you outlined there effectively values the Eric Staal one of our young DMen and 1 2nd round pick as 2 first round picks and a decent NHL player. I dunno, that seems like quite a bit for a rental and a kid.
 
Well this idea all started when I read, now can't find the source, that the Rangers could expect at most a 2nd rounder in return for Yandle.
 
JamesNorthern said:
Well this idea all started when I read, now can't find the source, that the Rangers could expect at most a 2nd rounder in return for Yandle.
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Never understood why the Rangers paid the price they did for Yandle last year and he never really seemed to fit that great with the other solid Ranger defenders they already have. The Rags gave up defenseman John Moore, top prospect Anthony Duclair, a lottery-protected first-round draft pick in 2016 and a second-round pick in 2015. That price was so steep!
 
Yeah. They were betting that joining that otherwise solid defensive club would free him up to attack and spur a return to the form he showed in in Phoenix before he went south a bit in 2014. Never happened. Kind of a shame too, because Yandle was fun to watch in Phoenix.
 
the worse case scenario is really not so bad actually, we just wouldn't get the extra return from a trade. So, he plays out the season, for whatever the circumstances and result, isn't resigned and walks. Is that sooo bad? We are off the books from his salary, and has been stated will be in pretty good form all together whereas cap space goes. We could feasibly go out there and find a new #1 center via trade, free agency, etc.. and make some decent pitches..
 
The thing I don't like about he idea that we let Eric Staal walk and then consider a TRADE for a #1 center is all the stuff that its going to cost us in that trade. Its not exactly easy to trade for a #1 center without giving up something substantial. Free agency of course is fraught with trouble too as you are out there bidding up players and committing huge dollars for players who may be heading toward the wrong side of 30 (already or in the near future).

If the end result of the Eric Staal saga is that he is gone and not coming back, how we replace him is going to be an interesting topic. Ronnie will have a lot of options, picking the right one is not that easy. I could easily envision us not really replacing Eric Staal with a #1 center and just going out and trying to get an additional #2 or 3 center and fill the roster hole with the rest of what we got. I'm still thinking that our cap hit for next year is going to slide off of this years $65 million and back to something more like $60 million.
 
JamesNorthern said:
the worse case scenario is really not so bad actually, we just wouldn't get the extra return from a trade. So, he plays out the season, for whatever the circumstances and result, isn't resigned and walks. Is that sooo bad? We are off the books from his salary, and has been stated will be in pretty good form all together whereas cap space goes. We could feasibly go out there and find a new #1 center via trade, free agency, etc.. and make some decent pitches..
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That scenario is not good. Teams like the Canes cannot afford to make costly mistakes like that. They need to maximize assets and E12 is a big asset. To continue to build toward competitiveness at the top level, this team cannot let E12 walk for nothing.

Not sure how we'd get a #1 center as a UFA. We would always get outbid and there would always be more attractive markets. The lone exception was when we got RF, but he had a history with this team. Let's assume then we trade for one. That means we'd be giving up some major assets to get that #1 center, probably defensive prospects and picks at the very least. Those assets then cannot be used somewhere else, like getting a top 6 winger or whatever. E12 walking for nothing is not acceptable. Essentially, RF's #1 priority right now should be to not let that happen. If he can't manage that, then he's not doing his job.

BTW, the video that came along with that article was hilarious. They actually called E12 a great character guy and something like the perfect tough guy for today's NHL. Whatever league they've been watching clearly did not include the Hurricanes.
 
JamesNorthern said:
Good article showing that Staal is less involved in the teams production, but still very much a key to the team's possesion game and other good stats, an article stating that his value is still pretty high in a trade:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/just-how-good-is-eric-staal-right-now/
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You know who else always looked good in the metrics and microstats......Alex Semin! :smilewinkgrin:

I really hope the Canes can maximize the value out of Eric and get a good return at the trade deadline. If they can't move Eric, I am ok with letting him walk when it comes down to it if the only other option is resigning him. Losing the #1 center on the team will be tough but the risk in resigning him would impact this team far greater than the length of time it takes Francis to fill his slot on the roster.

Eric's production has been trending down for a while especially the last 2 years. There isn't a great historical trend of player turning things around in their mid 30s. If you think we are unhappy with Eric's production and effort levels now, what do you think that looks like in 3 years? I personally would like to let someone else figure that out.
 
You'll note the habs have gone straight down the chute since disposing Semin. Coincidence?
 
JamesNorthern said:
the worse case scenario is really not so bad actually, we just wouldn't get the extra return from a trade. So, he plays out the season, for whatever the circumstances and result, isn't resigned and walks. Is that sooo bad? We are off the books from his salary, and has been stated will be in pretty good form all together whereas cap space goes. We could feasibly go out there and find a new #1 center via trade, free agency, etc.. and make some decent pitches..
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Actually James that scenario is the only one that simply cannot happen! To answer your question, yes that's really bad for the Canes. Most media outlets all agree that there is a market for Eric at the trade deadline, so you absolutely have to maximize the return if at all possible and I'm sure Ronnie is listening to all offers and will find a trade that works for all parties involved if that's the road they travel. Just letting him walk would be the biggest mistake Francis could make and Ronnie simply is not going to let that happen, he's smarter than that!
 
I guess it depends on what those offers are. If not moving E12 means we bypassed an offer for a high end prospect and a first round pick, then yeah, I agree.

On the other hand, if all we're being offered is a 2nd rounder, or a like for like trade for some other under-performing vet, then James is right.

The other piece I am sure enters into the picture is just how essential RF and Peters feel E12's role on the team is to the development of the younger players on the team, because whatever they are doing is working.

The last piece would be how essential they feel E12's role is with any kind of chance to make the playoffs. Because that means money to the team, and participating in the playoffs would be a very valuable experience for the young players.

Bottom line, it has to come down to the value of what you're able to move him for against the value of keeping him and not disrupting a development effort that appears to be in excellent shape. We probably don't know what the offers will be, and we also don't know how RF and Peters feel about how key E12 is for what they're trying to do.
 
bagopux said:
BTW, the video that came along with that article was hilarious. They actually called E12 a great character guy and something like the perfect tough guy for today's NHL. Whatever league they've been watching clearly did not include the Hurricanes.
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Can we all stop inflating the hype !!

;)
 
CanadaCanes said:
Actually James that scenario is the only one that simply cannot happen! To answer your question, yes that's really bad for the Canes. Most media outlets all agree that there is a market for Eric at the trade deadline, so you absolutely have to maximize the return if at all possible and I'm sure Ronnie is listening to all offers and will find a trade that works for all parties involved if that's the road they travel. Just letting him walk would be the biggest mistake Francis could make and Ronnie simply is not going to let that happen, he's smarter than that!
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True. I am just hating the fact that because of the big ticket he comes with, any potential deal will likely be a buzzer beater at the deadline... stressful....
 
All this being said, and a complete aside (OT) - I'm just loving Jaccob Slavin. So far, hands down my vote as the most pleasant surprise to emerge in our young players this year... and there really isn't a lack of feel good stories with this rebuild.
 
cmon3 said:
On the other hand, if all we're being offered is a 2nd rounder, or a like for like trade for some other under-performing vet, then James is right.
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If that was the kind of offer being made for Eric Staal then Francis should laugh out loud and hang up the phone...that's insulting when you compare many other deadline trades for the same type of player. Let's not forget the almost invisible Antoine Vermette commanded a first round pick and a prospect defenseman last year and the Keith Yandle trade brought back a first rounder, a second rounder, a top prospect in Anthony DuClair and John Moore!
 
CanadaCanes said:
If that was the kind of offer being made for Eric Staal then Francis should laugh out loud and hang up the phone...that's insulting when you compare many other deadline trades for the same type of player. Let's not forget the almost invisible Antoine Vermette commanded a first round pick and a prospect defenseman last year and the Keith Yandle trade brought back a first rounder, a second rounder, a top prospect in Anthony DuClair and John Moore!
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This. And I expect more or less the same thing from RF, perhaps with a little polite, I'm busy, goodbye preceeding the hangup. In the past, guys like Versteeg, Sekera to name just a couple of the many many...

Let us not forget - it is a deadline deal - this is all about over paying in the hopes you address a need - without any guarantees. That being said, with a bidding war - you do not under value your asset. He will be THE big piece available and I'm starting to think this is the likely scenario outcome:

- He continues, status quo and RF makes him a modest extension offer to stick around for 2-3 years at 6-6.5 mil. (personally not happy at that)
- RF gets an offer from a team with a real identified need at the deadline, an offer far and above the other pretenders - and drops the hammer getting a great return.

I am thinking it will be a good return on deadline or a dreaded extension. Think about it. Eric has gone on the record numerous times stating he doesn't want to move. I think the agreement is in place in fact. If RF gets the offer he cannot refuse, Eric will waive and both will see where the other stands again in the offseason.

Here's hoping
 
CanadaCanes said:
If that was the kind of offer being made for Eric Staal then Francis should laugh out loud and hang up the phone...that's insulting when you compare many other deadline trades for the same type of player. Let's not forget the almost invisible Antoine Vermette commanded a first round pick and a prospect defenseman last year and the Keith Yandle trade brought back a first rounder, a second rounder, a top prospect in Anthony DuClair and John Moore!
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I agree Staal should command more...and will this year. At some point though you have to wonder when GMs are going to stop the insanity with the deadline deals. I think history has shown that they rarely are effective moves....especially with the big name and associated high prices paid to acquire them. The most effective deals are usually the depth moves at the deadline.
 
CanadaCanes said:
If that was the kind of offer being made for Eric Staal then Francis should laugh out loud and hang up the phone...that's insulting when you compare many other deadline trades for the same type of player. Let's not forget the almost invisible Antoine Vermette commanded a first round pick and a prospect defenseman last year and the Keith Yandle trade brought back a first rounder, a second rounder, a top prospect in Anthony DuClair and John Moore!
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Vermette was a rental, Yandle was not. Rentals usually get a lower return, although Francis managed to get a first rounder and a prospect for Sekara last year.
 
CarolinaPen said:
I agree Staal should command more...and will this year. At some point though you have to wonder when GMs are going to stop the insanity with the deadline deals. I think history has shown that they rarely are effective moves....especially with the big name and associated high prices paid to acquire them. The most effective deals are usually the depth moves at the deadline.
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The insanity never seems to stop but you have to wonder if many of these overpays at the deadline are more about responding to a move a contending team has made than anything else just to try and keep up. The Blues are a perfect example of a team in the West that has to worry about facing teams like Chicago, Anaheim, LA and Nashville just to get out of their own conference...the Blues have had some really good teams the past few years but never seem to get to the Cup Final. San Jose has a core group that is getting old...is this one last Cup chance for them? The Ducks on paper look like a Cup contender but they have to make the playoffs first!
 
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