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Eric Staal Thread

Yeah we need to get some quality forward prospects like 10 years ago. :)

Seriously, this has to be the obvious goal. Max-out and acquire talented forwards.

That being said, I would think that given the Staal expiring contract situation, and that he ultimately gets to decide if he wants to be a rental or not, will be unattractive to some if not many teams that could be interested. So, I think we could see a trade involving not only Eric but a package that gives the acquiring team something else for their own future, in the case that Staal doesn't resign and tests the open market.

Even if I am still not convinced on Fleury, it is too soon to say that he is a success or a bust. Still improving and it shows... maybe I'd be more willing to give up say - McKeown and Staal for a top end prospect and a 1st round pick? Or a real high end prospect (like Kevin Fiala) and maybe a 2nd round pick for McKeown and Staal. Something like that.
 
I don't agree with mortgaging any part of our future prior to the deadline. Let these kids mature into whatever they will be and then deal from organizational strengths. Let having too many defenseman actually become a problem before shedding a piece or two of the future. And frankly, when we look at what EStaal actually brings to the ice at this stage, Francis could make a short term side deal to plug that hole and potentially this team would not skip a beat.
 
brassbonanza said:
I don't agree with mortgaging any part of our future prior to the deadline. Let these kids mature into whatever they will be and then deal from organizational strengths. Let having too many defenseman actually become a problem before shedding a piece or two of the future. And frankly, when we look at what EStaal actually brings to the ice at this stage, Francis could make a short term side deal to plug that hole and potentially this team would not skip a beat.
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My gut tells me that depending on the next couple of weeks... this could happen. It is NOT what I want, but if RF can at least surprise on the amount and term he will extend Eric for (iow, if he is extended for 2 seasons, at say a little over what his brother makes? yeah, then do it.
 
brassbonanza said:
I don't agree with mortgaging any part of our future prior to the deadline. Let these kids mature into whatever they will be and then deal from organizational strengths. Let having too many defenseman actually become a problem before shedding a piece or two of the future. And frankly, when we look at what EStaal actually brings to the ice at this stage, Francis could make a short term side deal to plug that hole and potentially this team would not skip a beat.
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Its been said repeatedly on this board that the team could deal E12 and plug the hole and not miss a bit. Not so sure I agree. He's still the #1 center and the Captain. He may not look like a leader from the outside but what happens in the dressing room may be a different story. Whatever your views are of his ability, he's still leading the team in assists, third in points, fourth in plus/minus and sixth in goals. That's not easy to replace.

To CP's comment about the wait and see approach. Maybe its not RF that is taking a wait and see approach. Maybe its E12.
 
bagopux said:
Its been said repeatedly on this board that the team could deal E12 and plug the hole and not miss a bit. Not so sure I agree. He's still the #1 center and the Captain. He may not look like a leader from the outside but what happens in the dressing room may be a different story. Whatever your views are of his ability, he's still leading the team in assists, third in points, fourth in plus/minus and sixth in goals. That's not easy to replace.

To CP's comment about the wait and see approach. Maybe its not RF that is taking a wait and see approach. Maybe its E12.
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Eric's 9 goals is good for a tie for 145th in the league and his more noticeable puck-goes-through-me assists are tied for 63rd in the league. Not exactly elite statistics or non-replaceable production.

Every one our centers and some wingers win the majority their face-offs and Eric is no exception, having improved from his earlier 40-some percent success to his current above-50 percent level. But that's a product more of our coaching (Brind'Amour in particular) than any innate ability.

He's replaceable. Not saying it wouldn't be painful to some degree as players grew into roles. But he's replaceable.
 
and maybe it's that other teams aren't ringing our doorbell ;)

To CP's comment about the wait and see approach. Maybe its not RF that is taking a wait and see approach. Maybe its E12.[/QUOTE]
 
Raise your hand if you'd be happy if E12 returns next season as the leader of Canes. Come on get them up there so we can see 'em.
 
CarolinaPen said:
I don't like the whole "wait and see" approach to the playoff standings. I don't think that is every going to provide a clear answer for Carolina. They aren't bad enough to go on an extended losing streak at this point in the season, and even if they continue to play well are likely still going to find themselves on the outside looking in due to the number of teams involved. The month of November pretty much blew it for this team this year.

The Canes ownership and GM need to make the decision about what they want to do regardless of the standings. Looking at the standings and clinging to hope is a good part of why this organization has struggled and NOT made the playoffs recently. Hopefully Ronnie makes the right moves without getting caught up in looking at the standings. Deep down he has to know the moves that are needed.
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Agree, agree, agree.

Waiting and seeing are NOT leadership and are NOT what will move this club forward towards a better future. That crap is what got us in this mess in the first place, yet here we go again .... HOPING to be flirting with the playoffs with a team built to do nothing more lofty than get the snot hammered out of them by a 1 seed in the first round. What a joke to wait for THAT.
 
Elsker said:
He's replaceable. Not saying it wouldn't be painful to some degree as players grew into roles. But he's replaceable.
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No disagreement there. My point was that he may not be able to be disappeared without the team missing a beat. There will be a transition period that may be pretty lumpy.

And, no, JFG, my hand is not raised.
 
Honestly.
Staal the way he has played this season is absolutely replaceable ... by any halfway competent 2nd line centerman. The hand wringing needs to stop.
 
Not worried about replacing him. If it's me and I get what I think it a good deal for him, I'd be inclined to make the move.

I don't know why we think the team is taking a wait and see attitude on it - we really don't know that and won't know it. All we really know is that he has an expiring contract with a NMC, and he makes too much for his production, and we have not moved him or re-signed him yet. I think we're translating speculation by those on this board and other places that the Canes are thinking about playoff positioning an waiting for that to sort itself out some. I'm sure they are thinking about the playoff positioning in relationship to E12, but we don't know how that enters into it, and we don't know that they're waiting and seeing. Maybe there's not any interest.

I would not be at all interested in sweetening the pot (by including any of the kids) to move E12 because someone is concerned he's just a rental. You move him for what you can move him for, or you don't move him. If someone wants some of our other assets, they can make an offer, and if it's a winner of a deal for the Canes, then you pull the trigger. If they need a pot sweetener, they can have MJordan, I'd be fine with that.

I also think the stats Jeffbear mentioned in relationship to how replaceable E12 is in the lineup without hurting any chances for us this year are the same ones that would make me very upset if I was say Chicago and made a move for him that gave up much more than maybe a 2nd rounder. The truth about him is that he's a physically gifted player with good size and he doesn't get in trouble. He reaches too much and doesn't seem to really care all that much on the ice - or maybe he cares, but not enough to lay it all out there. He has under-peformed vs. his contract, and the team has not done much under his captaincy. The current Hurricanes team is playing quite well of late and he has not been the major driver of that, although he has played decently. I just don't know how many teams are going to be excited to give up a first rounder plus, or some really high end prospects to pick him up. The only way I see that happening is trading some dead weight contract back to us that is not going to contribute to the other team's cup run. So we pick up the dead weight or two, and they exchange that cap space for E12, and as compensation we get a 1st rounder.
 
In terms of replacing him, you'd need someone to cover the ice time. He's not doing anything particularly valuable other than holding his own. If someone want's him, we can find someone else, or multiple someone else's to fill that role for the rest of the season.

Any decisions made need to be based on the future quality and depth of our roster. If it passes that test, then I'm for it.
 
I will chime in (again ;))

I read an article that demonstrated that Staal still has the best corsi numbers on the team (?)

That being said, it (article) also noted the decline in that stat, especially this season.

As an aside, I cannot stand the new 'in-depth' advanced stats. Just me. :)

At the end of the day though, I think another way to look at this is that we need to target someone who would be a good fit. A big bodied center who can draw a lot of guys to him - at the least - along with some good to elite level abilities/talent.

As for the team dealing Eric and staying in this meaningless playoff hunt? It won't be that bad. Because, I would expect that any body coming back should be a high end prospect that is or very close to (ready) NHL readiness. There are many many of those types in a few orgs, waiting in the wings for their chance and simply victims of depth. So let's just say we get a 20 something good center. The way I see it? J. Staal's line and Rasks would then become lines 1a and 1b, and the new center could fill out the third line spot - for the immediate.

Of course, if we happen to win the draft lottery (assuming we don't make the p-offs by 1-6 points only to get resoundly eliminate by the Capitals in the 1st round...) then all bets are off as I would fully expect Matthews to play in the NHL right away.

So, long story short - in my opinion we won't be that affected by the loss of Staal. Moreso the chemistry that a guy like Versteeg has brought out of him... speaking of which, I think he will be in high demand and I am not so sure I want to see Kris leave. He really is a good utility player, in most facets that we haven't had the likes around here for a while. Shift, crafty and plays with a healthy level of compete/passion.
 
Here's the math:

((Late 2016 1st Round Draft Pick) + (E12 Gone as Playoff Rental)) > (E12 on Canes for Playoff Push)

Pull the trigger Ronnie and point this ship in the right direction.
 
cmon3 said:
Not worried about replacing him. If it's me and I get what I think it a good deal for him, I'd be inclined to make the move.

I don't know why we think the team is taking a wait and see attitude on it - we really don't know that and won't know it. All we really know is that he has an expiring contract with a NMC, and he makes too much for his production, and we have not moved him or re-signed him yet. I think we're translating speculation by those on this board and other places that the Canes are thinking about playoff positioning an waiting for that to sort itself out some. I'm sure they are thinking about the playoff positioning in relationship to E12, but we don't know how that enters into it, and we don't know that they're waiting and seeing. Maybe there's not any interest.

I would not be at all interested in sweetening the pot (by including any of the kids) to move E12 because someone is concerned he's just a rental. You move him for what you can move him for, or you don't move him. If someone wants some of our other assets, they can make an offer, and if it's a winner of a deal for the Canes, then you pull the trigger. If they need a pot sweetener, they can have MJordan, I'd be fine with that.

I also think the stats Jeffbear mentioned in relationship to how replaceable E12 is in the lineup without hurting any chances for us this year are the same ones that would make me very upset if I was say Chicago and made a move for him that gave up much more than maybe a 2nd rounder. The truth about him is that he's a physically gifted player with good size and he doesn't get in trouble. He reaches too much and doesn't seem to really care all that much on the ice - or maybe he cares, but not enough to lay it all out there. He has under-peformed vs. his contract, and the team has not done much under his captaincy. The current Hurricanes team is playing quite well of late and he has not been the major driver of that, although he has played decently. I just don't know how many teams are going to be excited to give up a first rounder plus, or some really high end prospects to pick him up. The only way I see that happening is trading some dead weight contract back to us that is not going to contribute to the other team's cup run. So we pick up the dead weight or two, and they exchange that cap space for E12, and as compensation we get a 1st rounder.
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Well one scenario I see is if a team like Nashville, with a lot of cap space, could improve their positioning from now till the deadline, and after a few crappy playoff runs in recent years... maybe they might commit to risking moving a high end prospect for E. Staal. (there are two that intrigue me personally, Fiala and Kamenev)

I don't see that as bieng such a stretch and actually see that being a good move for the Preds IF they stay on a roll from now till the deadline and well, they commit to going for it now.

As for a package - you can be sure that I was thinking of us winning the trade. Personally? If I can swing, E. Staal & R. Mckeown for Fiala/Kamenev and Nashville's 2nd in 2016? I will only need a few minutes to get these guys bags packed! I would not be happy if it was any other player outside of Smurph or MJordan either... a few I would consider.
 
JFG said:
Here's the math:

((Late 2016 1st Round Draft Pick) + (E12 Gone as Playoff Rental)) > (E12 on Canes for Playoff Push)

Pull the trigger Ronnie and point this ship in the right direction.
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Don't forget, you can add a caveat to that equation in that Staal and org can always talk in the offseason.
 
I've seen those claims made that Eric "leads the team in Corsi". But either those people don't understand advanced stats AND/OR are cherry-picking a single category of those stats in which Eric did once upon a time lead the team.

Since he shoots every frickin' time he has the puck (at least until recently, when I actually caught him passing to a teammate and heading for the net for what turned into *gasp* a scoring chance), he's always up there on the Corsi (includes all his missed and blocked shot attempts, along with actual shots) rankings on the team. However, Jeff Skinner has recently passed him in that offensive category and is the current Corsi For leader.

It's Jordan Staal that's the possession monster in the categories of advanced stats that measure two-way performance, like even-strength shot attempts for and attempts against ratios per 60, etc.
 
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I don't think it's as much a wait and see attitude as much as it is letting that deadline get closer to try and maximize return.
 
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