MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Komi would be a much bigger cap hit this year apparently. When you stack the math up, and take the rising cap into consideration, this isn't nearly as stupid as it first seems.
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Komi would be a much bigger cap hit this year apparently. When you stack the math up, and take the rising cap into consideration, this isn't nearly as stupid as it first seems.
organicsteroid
Banned
Still cannot get used to not having the players wives section, that was topnotch chit mang.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
I'll take the bigger cap hit (which, by the way couldn't have been more than $2M) for this year, rather than have a slightly smaller one for the next half decade.
Keep in mind that amnestying Liles would've freed up $3.8M this year and beyond.
So we took out Komi's $4M hit with the amnesty, but will eat into that with $2M of Liles for the next six years. Instead, we could've gotten rid of Liles' $3.8M hit and had Komi's $2M eat into it for a couple of years.
They both made roughly the same money, but one for one year and one for three years. So who was the better candidate to wipe out with no penalty?
Keep in mind that amnestying Liles would've freed up $3.8M this year and beyond.
So we took out Komi's $4M hit with the amnesty, but will eat into that with $2M of Liles for the next six years. Instead, we could've gotten rid of Liles' $3.8M hit and had Komi's $2M eat into it for a couple of years.
They both made roughly the same money, but one for one year and one for three years. So who was the better candidate to wipe out with no penalty?
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Liles' buyout caphit this year is .875 million, Komi's is 2.17 million
This is the only year that this dead cap is particularly important as we still have the Darcy Armstrong buyout ending after this season. So it was either go into this year, with an artificially low 64 million dollar cap with 4.17 million dollars in dead cap space, or 2.875 million. Pretty easy decision really, it doesn't even start to bite us until year 3 where we take a 2.3 million dollar cap hit for the Liles buyout, but at a 75+ million dollar cap hit, who gives a ****? This was the important year and though it's counter intuitive ( I was making the same argument until I saw the actual buyout structures ), this is the right move.
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MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Just so we have them side by side:
Komisarek:
13/14: 2.17 + 2 million for Colby Tucker
14/15: 1.17
Liles:
13/14: 875K + 2 million for Colby Tucker
14/15: 875K
15/16: 2.375
16/17: 1.25
17/18: 1.25
18/19: 1.25
With the cap set to ****ing explode next summer, I'm far more concerned about the ability to get Kadri & Franson under contract than I am the final 4 years of a Liles buyout, in a 75-80+ million dollar cap environment.
Komisarek:
13/14: 2.17 + 2 million for Colby Tucker
14/15: 1.17
Liles:
13/14: 875K + 2 million for Colby Tucker
14/15: 875K
15/16: 2.375
16/17: 1.25
17/18: 1.25
18/19: 1.25
With the cap set to ****ing explode next summer, I'm far more concerned about the ability to get Kadri & Franson under contract than I am the final 4 years of a Liles buyout, in a 75-80+ million dollar cap environment.
Pronger84
Active member
This is all on Burke, he was the one who signed a midget defensemen to a multi year deal AFTER he had suffered his 3rd concussion in under 2 years. The red flags Burke should have considered were a) Liles was north of 30 at the time of the contract signing b) small defensmen c) history of concussion, all things that should have told him "stay away", but he didn't. Nonis isn't at fault here, I mean really what can he do? No team is going to want a depth defencemen making $4.1M/year not to mention Liles has a limited NTC, the only thing I can fault Nonis for is not using the compliance buyout on Liles instead of Komiserak.
Deckie007
Well-known member
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
I guess I'm not up to speed on how the new buyout rules work.
It was always 2/3 of the contract spread evenly over twice the length. What are the rules now that you see such a weird breakdown of Liles' contract?
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
For the record, I still would prefer the Komi buyout and just find a way to clear out $1.5M more if you need to. Drop McLaren and Holzer and you're back in black.
Look how much it sucks that we have Tucker, Armstrong and Frattin/Scrivens on our necks. With that $2.5M right now, we'd have no problem fitting Kadri and Franson.
But we're ****ed because we bit the bullet on that shit previously. I'd rather send Liles and a 3rd to some team in exchange for a worse player and contract that expires next year.
Look how much it sucks that we have Tucker, Armstrong and Frattin/Scrivens on our necks. With that $2.5M right now, we'd have no problem fitting Kadri and Franson.
But we're ****ed because we bit the bullet on that shit previously. I'd rather send Liles and a 3rd to some team in exchange for a worse player and contract that expires next year.
Volcanologist
Well-known member
I think that's crazy. So to get marginally more space this year, we're taking a hit for 4 more years instead of 1 more? That is not good cap business, rising or no. thank god we had a couple of freebies.
If we needed space for Kadri and Franson, start by not qualifying Humpty Dumpty ****ing Fraser, there's 1.275 more room right there.
Nonis ****ed up here...IF this buyout does go through of course, it's nothing but a rumour at this point.
Volcanologist
Well-known member
yes, obviously. what the **** did you think I was talking about?
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Yeah, this has to be an unfounded rumor. It would make zero sense for this to happen.
Assuming Nonis is a competent GM, you'd think he would've explored doing a deal with Carolina where they took Komi and some prospect of ours, and maybe we retain a portion of his salary for next year. To buy him out and then not have an amnesty for Liles and buy him out anyway would be one of the dumbest things I've seen in a while.
And like I said, there's still likely no need. Trade Holzer, trade Brennan, trade Fraser. Whatever to free up that little bit more you need.
And why are they not leaving some space for a kid on the third pairing? Had Liles, got Fraser back, signed Brennan, signed Ranger. That's a lot of extra money when they have Holzer on the books anyway who could play as a competent #6 if need be.
Not liking these moves at all while Franson and Kadri still sit there unsigned. Not to mention Kessel and Phaneuf coming up.
leafman101
Well-known member
Yeah, exactly. It also gives them a chance to see if they can dump Liles on someone after free agency. I am positive they did the math on all possibilities.
The problem with creating additional cap space is how. Unless you are going to start to trade someone valuable like Kulemin or McClement it is hard to open up an additional $1.5 mill in cap space on this team.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Holzer and McLaren.
Fraser and Holzer.
Not that hard.
Fraser and Holzer.
Not that hard.
leafman101
Well-known member
That doesn't save you very much money. Holzer probably isn't going to make the team anyway and McLaren and Fraser you would have to replace in the lineup with guys cheaper than $700k and $900k. At absolute best you are saving well less than $1 million there.
And I really don't think Fraser is going to make the team either, but replacing him with Ranger or Rielly doesn't save anything, and replacing him with Brennan saves $300k.
And I really don't think Fraser is going to make the team either, but replacing him with Ranger or Rielly doesn't save anything, and replacing him with Brennan saves $300k.
leafman101
Well-known member
Shifting those depth guys around really doesn't accomplish very much. They likely aren't going to carry 23 guys anyway (Poulin said on the radio the other day). To free up that kind of cap space you are talking about guys like Gunnar, Kuly and McClement. They have under $5 mill in cap space and both Kadri and Franson want approximately that kind of money.
Its pretty much like renegotiating contracts in the NFL. It hurts you in the long run, but saves your ass this year. Its actually creative cap accounting.
Its pretty much like renegotiating contracts in the NFL. It hurts you in the long run, but saves your ass this year. Its actually creative cap accounting.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Neither of those guys are getting $5M, so they can keep dreaming if that's what they're asking for.
More like $3.5M each is right, MAYBE $4M in the case of one. So we're talking $7.5M.
We have $4.9M. If they can move Liles by adding a sweetener, that would be all we need. If not, they have to cut a few smaller deals.
The fact that Nonis is signing up Fraser, Ranger, and Brennan when he has these other more pressing needs makes me think he has some other deal in mind if Liles is anchored to us.
More like $3.5M each is right, MAYBE $4M in the case of one. So we're talking $7.5M.
We have $4.9M. If they can move Liles by adding a sweetener, that would be all we need. If not, they have to cut a few smaller deals.
The fact that Nonis is signing up Fraser, Ranger, and Brennan when he has these other more pressing needs makes me think he has some other deal in mind if Liles is anchored to us.
leafman101
Well-known member
Doing it this way they'd have $9.5 mill to resign Kadri and Franson, which is just barely enough to sign them both to long term deals for $4-5 mill each. And that is with only an 18 man roster and no Fraser. With Fraser its ~$9.1.
Amnestying Liles and buying out Komi would give them ~$8 mill. (With Fraser ~$7.6) That would be enough to sign one to a long term deal.
Its the difference between signing these guys to bridge deals or long term deals. Which could save well more than Liles average $1.2 mill cap hit/year.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
It's not really marginal when it's the difference between being able to re sign Franson + Kadri and not.
Agreed...but, if we're buying out both Liles & Komi, and this is the most important year of the bunch to get cap savings, I think you just suck it up and make that decision. I don't blame Nonis for going about it like this, I blame Burke for signing him to that ****ing contract when we had Gardiner in house to replace Liles.
Yeah, I disagree entirely. What's worse, 4.17 million of dead cap hit at 64 million...when you have to get 2 of your young stud RFA's under contract, or 2.3 million in 3 years at a ~78 million dollar cap?
All the length of the buyout does is slightly lessen the competitive advantage we gain by being one of the 5-8 teams in the league who can afford to spend past 75 million.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Regardless the circumstances, the prudent GM treats cap space like gold.
It's far more worthwhile to get creative with Liles than to buy him out like a buffoon.
Trade him and a 2nd or 3rd to someone for a low end prospect. Or for some bottom pair dman making half the money. And then ship Fraser off to someone who needs cheap brainless muscle on D.
It's far more worthwhile to get creative with Liles than to buy him out like a buffoon.
Trade him and a 2nd or 3rd to someone for a low end prospect. Or for some bottom pair dman making half the money. And then ship Fraser off to someone who needs cheap brainless muscle on D.