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OT: American Politics

Re: OT: Canadian Politics

corksens said:
I just want everyone to remember who the bad guy was in that situation - the guy with a knife on the streetcar.

That cop, even if he did overreact (with lethal consequences) might be a fantastic officer and the kind of guy you would sigh with relief if he responded to a call at your place.

The flash to judgement here - and in so many other places - is to vilify this officer as some trigger happy, power tripping meathead - and that's sad.
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He didn't scratch up a patrol car through negligence....he ended this misguided guy's life. Of course there is going to be outrage when the available evidence clearly shows a "trigger happy" police officer overreacting, as you put it.

Definition of trigger-happy....

trig·ger-hap·py (trgr-hp)
adj. Slang
1. Having a tendency or desire to shoot a firearm before adequately identifying the target.
2. Inclined to react violently at the slightest provocation.

My brother shared a story with me this morning about a youngish kid (black even) who had a pistol in his waistband at a movie theater parking lot....closest my brother ever came to discharging his gun was when this kid moved swiftly towards the back of a nearby car and dropping his hands to his side....but he calmly and professionally kept his cool and was able to successfully negate the threat through discussion.
 
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Re: OT: Canadian Politics

That second video raises lots of questions. I have a hard time seeing why he had to shoot him in that circumstance, and then fire six more times. That cop appeared to have had a really bad night, and since it led to someone dying, I think there needs to be discipline here. Up to and including dismissal.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

Watching the split screen video I see why he was shot. He started moving towards the constables and was within the lethal force zone. Once he's down you can't see if he stll is holding the knife or not, though I suspect if there is any discipline it will result from the shots when he was down.

What is interesting is that he was tasered after being shot which tells me he was still holding the knife and refusing to put it down. It also looks like he was moving after being hit. The kid was most likely still holding the knife, at one point it looks like he's waving his arm around.


I don't understand how people don't get that police aren't like the characters in movies. They will not engage someone in hand to hand fighting if the other person has a knife. That would be monumentally stupid on their part. I already mentioned the story of a cop i treated who lost use their hand after being slashed by a box cutter.

It's a tragedy this kid couldn't/wouldn't follow directions.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

For **** sakes. Was someone saying the number of bullets doesn't matter? Three bullets and he's down on the ground, not moving. Then six more to make sure he doesn't ever get up. You can see one of the cops on the right looking over at the shooter when he starts firing again. He must be thinking "He's down, what the **** are you doing?"

In my experience, too many cops aren't properly trained in de-escalating a conflict. To be fair, the video doesn't show how long they might have been there trying to talk him down, but if the guy is high or drunk, he's not going to respond well to someone pointing a gun at him yelling repeatedly "drop the knife". Police don't have to be perfect, but they have to be better than this.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

This is likely going to come down to the fact that the cop that killed this teenager will be deemed as psychological unfit to be a police office.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

I'm shocked people aren't accepting this as a police **** up.

Angry kids with pocket knives are easily de-escalated and subdued by cops without guns, practically on a nightly basis in Glasgow, in situations far less controlled than this. In the last 5 years in Scotland I can't recall a cop being seriously injured under those circumstances.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

Cops **** up...it's not surprising.

Not sure what there is to defend here...kid shuffling and pacing on a streetcar is seen as a charging motion?
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

SundinsTooth said:
#2 I just don't see...and I'm gathering neither did the non-firing officers on the scene....
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The split camera shot clearly shows him moving towards them. You don't know what his intent was, neither did the cop who fired. It also looked like he was in the best position given the size of the street car door and the angle up the stairs to fire. For the other cops it could have been as simple as they were half a metre to the side so it was a clear run for the suspect.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

I just read on the national post (can't link, I'm not a "member") but apparently the officer that fired the shots was the one to call a taser to the scene.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

Aberdeen said:
I'm shocked people aren't accepting this as a police **** up.

Angry kids with pocket knives are easily de-escalated and subdued by cops without guns, practically on a nightly basis in Glasgow, in situations far less controlled than this. In the last 5 years in Scotland I can't recall a cop being seriously injured under those circumstances.
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Everyone knows that cop missed up royally. The Chief and the Toronto Police Board have all recognized this.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

voyager said:
The split camera shot clearly shows him moving towards them. You don't know what his intent was, neither did the cop who fired. It also looked like he was in the best position given the size of the street car door and the angle up the stairs to fire. For the other cops it could have been as simple as they were half a metre to the side so it was a clear run for the suspect.
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I guess, but man...there is moving towards someone in a threatening manner and then there is random pacing and shuffling due to intoxication or mental episodes...

But you do have a point - there may be more to this then the few seconds of video at our disposal.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

SundinsTooth said:
I guess, but man...there is moving towards someone in a threatening manner and then there is random pacing and shuffling due to intoxication or mental episodes...
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Can you tell the difference when someone is holding a knife and you don't have the luxury of sitting behind a computer watching the video over and over again?
 
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